Blackness Round Table: A conversation about being neutral, education, and more.

Richard Dodds  0:00  
Coming up later in the episode,

Jai  0:01  
my daughter had a friend who was a white little girl. And she’s like, I want to draw a picture. And I’m like, Okay, let’s draw a picture. And she’s like stuff, my friend. What color do I use? You call her white. But this is white. This is not what she looks like. But it wasn’t until that then I started thinking, You know what, we really do need additional shades so that we can cover stuff who do use the these color words when it’s not really these colors.

Richard Dodds  0:33  
This is still talking Black and Scholes, about giving perspective to issues that minorities face every day. I’m your host, Richard. This week is gonna be a little bit different about a few of our friends to have a conversation about blackness, and insincerity, just a general conversation as to the holiday. So we’re going to have a conversation about blackness have three friends with me. I’m going to have them introduce themselves, starting with Jay.

Jai  0:58  
All right. Hello, everyone. I’m Jay. I am man. I am a person who has experienced blackness in a number of different ways from going to a HBCU to going to black schools throughout the city, inner city of Detroit. I love blackness. And I actually I love people, but I really respect my blackness and I seek knowledge about my blackness on a regular basis.

Richard Dodds  1:27  
That’s the That’s it. Wow, you should be hosting the show. hollered me. Man, we got Angel.

Angel  1:36  
Hello, Angel. I am from corporate America. I am also a history buff. So I’ve researched my history, not only on the black side, but on all sides. But I’m very, very, very interested in some my black side of my history right now. Yeah, teach my children.

Richard Dodds  1:54  
That makes sense. And we got Coco here. 

CoCo  1:57  
I’m Coco. I went to a predominantly black grade school, middle school and high school. And then I went to a PWI for college where we have 4% minority. And a little bit of background on myself as my dad was very big in social justice. So I went to like the Million Man March elementary school, he told me stories about him marching on Washington. And that is my connection to my blackness,

Richard Dodds  2:21  
essentially, so So now that we know a little bit about everybody, I’m gonna start asking some questions, we’re gonna have some conversation. The first question that I have, I think is a big one. And I’m interested to see everybody’s takes because I know all of you. I’ll start with J, we’ll just go we’ll just go back in that circle. We’ll start with J. Again, what does blackness mean to you? What does being black mean to you?

Jai  2:43  
Man blackness means owning excellence. From my thought process. Most of the great things that exist in this world have been inspired by or touched by someone who has come from a black culture. And I say, a black culture because I also understand that this a diaspora, right. So culture changes when people move, when they migrate, they pick up other things. So it’s not just one culture blackness is multicultural. So for me, it’s just looking at all the greatness that people like me, or people that look like me have created and owning and being proud of that taking pride in that.

Richard Dodds  3:28  
Wow, that’s deep. Angel. I’m really interested to hear what you what you say about blackness, I don’t know, recently, it makes me think about something knowing your background. Paula Patton came out and she said that she felt like being called biracial was offensive to her. And I know that you’re somebody who talks about all the racists that you’re mixed with. And so what does what does blackness mean to you?

Angel  3:56  
So blackness, to me means basically, it makes me who I am, as all the cultures that I have in me, like the Indian, the Irish, the blackness, when I think about it, historically, I wouldn’t be where I am today, if it wasn’t for what my ancestors struggled with, on all but with the blackness itself. I think about my grandparents who came up during the Great My name Gregory, north, you know, and they he came up for a job, and I wouldn’t be as educated or have as much thought process about who I am as a person if it wasn’t for the struggles that they went through. So my blackness makes me strong. It makes me powerful. It makes me who I am. Dope.

Richard Dodds  4:40  
That’s well said, what about you Coco?

CoCo  4:43  
Blackness, to me is unstoppable is the essence of an innovative and having tenacity. We can do anything we put our mind to. If something is taken away from us, we will make something new. Whatever we’re given, we will make it the best and then If anything is taken away from us, it still doesn’t stop us. So that’s blackness to me is tenacity.

Richard Dodds  5:06  
Yeah, I feel like being black, you really have to fight. It’s like all my life I had to fight. But I just know the way that I was raised. And growing up, I never really thought about race. In that context. I knew I was black. It wasn’t something, it’s like, I’m Richard, you know what I’m saying, I’m not, I’m not a race, I’m a person. And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gone to embrace my blackness more, just because I want to learn more about it. And the thing is, is that society makes you pay so much attention to it. And I feel like in the past, it’s been times where I’ve been like neutral, to where it’s like, I just didn’t think about race at all. But, you know, I feel maybe like the last five or six years, I might have even started when Barack Obama became president, I started to think about race in a way in the context that media thinks about race all the time. And it can’t just be even the way that black people are portrayed in the media is completely different than other races. And it’s just something that I had to be way more of, and that I had to actively, you know, I heard somebody saying, they were talking about queer man. And the guy was saying that he was he was saying, like, Oh, I’m cool with like, whatever you want to be, it’s fine. Like, he’s like, I don’t care. And the guy and the other person said, I need you to care. Now, it’s past the point where I need you say that you don’t care, I need you to actively care, that I’m a person that I exist, that I have rights. And I feel that same struggle. On the black side, it’s like now, it’s like, I don’t care what race you are, it’s like, I need you to care that I’m black. And I need you to help protect that as well. And I think that a lot of a lot of correlation goes between the LGBTQ plus community, like a lot of stuff that they’re going through, and social justice, it’s been the same kind of things that black people have had to go through. And then you are on a layer of being black. And that is just a whole nother thing, a whole nother struggle. And I think it’s not something that we talked about in a later episode with being black, LGBTQ plus, and a woman. It’s just like, a different levels. Everybody has to do it. Somehow. I’m not just trying to be like, Oh, it doesn’t matter what race I am a representation. Now. It’s like, let’s pay attention to the things that, that I care about the things that I am, because whether I see, it’s like whether you see yourself as black and you Brown, do the world gonna see you as black period. So you got to kind of embrace it.

Jai  7:45  
I definitely agree with that statement, we literally are in a place where we have to, if we need allies, who are not just allies and secret, we need people who are going to be allies in like out loud. Don’t be my ally, when you sit next to me, but when stuff really happening you quiet like if nothing else, the recent events have taught me to actually look and see who your real allies are. And literally some people have been unfriended on Facebook because of it.

Richard Dodds  8:19  
That’s the first episode that I did had to do talking about it, because I’m black being treated a certain way. But the second half of that episode talked about education. And the way that as a minority growing up in a predominantly black city, growing up, I never knew that the other schools around me in the suburbs were that much better. Like I know that two of you are familiar are really deep in education. What do you think about education and being tired? One thing Coco, you have said it before to say education should not be tied to taxes, right?

Jai  8:59  
Yeah, almost certainly should not be tied to taxes.

CoCo  9:02  
It’s terrible. Just because you pay X amount of dollars for your property, then your kids get to go to a school that is worth X amount of dollars. But the people who can’t pay for their property has to take the least amount of resources

Jai  9:15  
is definitely not fair. It’s definitely not fair. Um, I’ve been to places where school is not tied to money. I’ve seen and I’ve experienced situations where people went to school for free because knowledge is perceived to be something that anyone can have and possess, if you so choose to seek it. So it’s always interesting. When we get on the topic of well, one, all the debt that students end up in when they get out of college, how predatory campuses are by allowing credit card companies to come and advertise without actually having a class or anything. I explain to you what credit is like because not everybody gets the same lesson on how to handle money. That’s true. So it’s just the inextricable tie between money and knowledge is so just crazy. To me.

Richard Dodds  10:14  
The craziest thing about that is, is that it benefits communities and countries when people are educated, right? So it’s like, it makes the whole country better, better, more valuable, more innovative, but we make it so hard for especially certain communities to get education. Angel, what do you got going on my look like, you almost look like you want to shed a tear, like what is all your hair. 

Angel  10:37  
So for me, I went to like the neighborhood school, you know, and I was always one of those My mother taught me, education was the key. If you want to do anything, you have to learn something. And my mom had at that point had only graduated from high school. And my mom has a doctorate now, and she did everything later in life. And going to college wasn’t a choice for me. Going to educate myself wasn’t a choice for me. But it was around third or fourth grade, I had a white teacher, and third grade, she failed all of her black students. Wow. And I took it really, really hard. Like, I’m not a dumb kid, you know. And after our conversation, listening to you know, kids got yours, they always listen to stuff, they shouldn’t be happening to me in the hallway and three to black teachers were like, Well, her philosophy is if you want to hide information from black kids put it in a book. And I remember going home and having that conversation with my mother. And it was I read, like I was that kid go to bed, I’m like, I got a candle on I’m reading, I’m gonna read anything I can grab my hands on. And for me, it became at third grade being that young. I’m reading everything I could possibly put my hands on knowledge became for me, I don’t care where I grew up, where I was, I was going to learn everything that I possibly could to make me a better person so that the next person that I came in contact with, could be better because they knew me. So education to me, like I come from corporate, but now I’m a teacher. Because I wanted to make sure that kids who are in the urban city schools, I work in a title one school. So our funds are how they get taught. But I don’t teach them by the books that we have

Richard Dodds  12:37  
based off of the funds, you try to take it above. 

Angel  12:40  
I’m a science and social studies teacher. So right now my kids are learning about black scientists. You know, I have a couple Caribbean kids. Let’s look about let’s Jamaica, what came from here, what came from Cuba. Let me explore you who you are in the black diaspora. You’re just not what this book says. You are. 

Richard Dodds  13:00  
Yeah, knowledge is so important. And you think about the people who are in power control the knowledge that comes through. And one of the things that I remember, I remember coming across somebody, and they were a black young lady. And she thought that Micromax was was white. And she went to a suburban school. And one of the things that I started to realize is that the part that predominantly black schools taught black history. You live in the suburbs, it was hit or miss. Sometimes they did. Sometimes they did into where you’re black. And you don’t know Malcolm X is a black man who fought for black writes that that was one of the most eye opening things that I have ever experienced.

Jai  13:41  
I’ll be real with you, if it’s not Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King. And we laugh, but like, we call that the cliche.

Richard Dodds  13:51  
mentionable and we definitely don’t like talking to George Washington Carver,

Jai  13:55  
anybody who is a person who would be considered rebellious, or somebody who would lead people in a way that the government or people in power would not want to be led. We can’t teach that. Because what we do know is that history repeats itself and having access to the knowledge of Hey, there, there wasn’t that Turner. Yeah, you know, hey, there was a Malcolm X, there was a Marcus Garvey, like when you start thinking about these names, and I mean, we can go even deeper to the people who were in the civil rights struggle. They see these examples, and it makes them Oh, let me let me see how they did that right. Now, we don’t talk about it, but even having free lunch came from black folks. That was our idea that came from the Black Panthers. So we don’t, we don’t think about stuff because we’re not exposed to stuff. And definitely in the suburbs. You don’t want to rock the boat, right? Right. So they We’ll have that access because they don’t want them to know that.

Richard Dodds  15:02  
Yeah. Are we gonna say Coco? Oh, sorry, Coco.

CoCo  15:05  
So I wanted to circle back to the beginning where you were talking about the example of how poor communities have different resources than richer communities based on a property tax. Right. So I would say there’s two different things that happen there. Right? Some of the students just get less and they just work with what they got is less. But then in like my case, we were almost millet, like militarize, like I’m saying that word, right. But you know what I mean, like, it was great, ingrained in us very early on that you have to be the best no matter what you’re given, we had to say, the afro central creed, from the sixth grade until like, high school, and in there, there’s a line about good, better, best, I will never let it rest into my good is my better and my better is my best. I had to learn that in English and in Spanish. And then in high school every morning, my principal would get on there, and she would talk about this, you know, excuses are the tools they incompetent use to build themselves great monuments of nothing. It was all of our yearbooks, it was so ingrained to me it just was like, that’s why I said, like, we were unstoppable. Because all of that resonated with me. I came from a school district where we had African American Super Bowl, where we competed against other schools to say we know more about our, you know, our culture than your school does. You know, we grew up watching that show where the HBCUs would compete against each other in the early mornings, like Jeopardy. So, so for me, it was like, culture, culture, culture. And then when I went to college, it was like, when I met people who did not have that same experience to me, and that was eye opening. It was like, what, like, I never had black history. Like we never even got him. Okay, day off. I was like, Huh. And then, you know, at home, my dad did such a good job of like, instilling like, social justice is important to me, meeting people who, like you mentioned that neutrality clung to that neutrality so much. It was like, Ooh, I cringe. Like, I’m like, How could you what is going on like this? It was so opposite of what I had ever experienced that that was eye opening. Not to mention, I went from what I thought was a small town to a teeny tiny, small town. So I was having all types of culture shock in college, because it was like, why is it quiet? Eight o’clock? Why don’t you know this about that? You know, what do you mean is this and then people asking me like, really dumb questions. And I’m like, or, like, I say something about being tans like, you’ve changed colors. Yeah. Check me out in the wintertime, like, you know, is like, are people just not completely oblivious to my color, and they’re talking to me about tanning beds. I’m like, Oh, I smell like tanning bed. I’m like, I don’t know what that smells like. I don’t know what that means. And for me,

Richard Dodds  17:49  
like I have a big fan tan, I’ve had this all my life. And thank you very much.

CoCo  17:53  
So it was like, it definitely the world got humongous to me when I thought the world was already big. And then you go to these places, and you get a taste of a different world. And it’s like, me, speaking,

Richard Dodds  18:07  
thinking of that word, you use that neutral thing. and I were talking about that a little earlier, as being someone who was formally neutral, and was happy to be neutral. The thing is, is that ignorance is bliss. Sent is great not to have to think about all the struggles that your your people have been through, and not thinking like, Oh, these are still struggles that we’re dealing with today. And I think that a lot of non minorities are neutral. And they might have friends and they might not be racist. But then like, everything is fine, I don’t see color. Nobody sees color and a nor all of the other things that are happening inside of communities just because everything is awesome, like The Lego Movie. And, and they don’t want to have to deal with real stuff. And then some some of my friends. I don’t think they’ve ever had to think about stuff when it occurs to race, even some of the bigger stories until this like, hey, that could have been me. And then it kind of clicks.

Angel  19:04  
right for me. I was that neutral. Like my mom. She taught me opera. I knew ballet, I knew Alvin Ailey. I knew this is who you are, as a person, like my great grandmother is Irish. And I had to know my Irish history as well. And I didn’t think about it. You know, I’m human. I was that kid who pissed off my teachers, because when they checked, you know, African black, I hit other and I put human because to me, it wasn’t my race wasn’t a big issue. And it wasn’t until I was around 23 I worked at a living history museum and I got a racial remark that I must have been a good masters bit warmer because I could cook I could clean and I had a behind, like any charge you like, hit me really, really hard. And I had to come out of character and I started crying and I’m like, Well, why would he say that? And then I had a conversation with a friend. And it was like you forget sometimes that you’re black. And it wasn’t that I forgot. It was that just being black wasn’t everything that I was.

Richard Dodds  20:13  
It’s the way that comes with being black that you kind of forget sometimes when you’ve been in safe spaces a lot of your life, and I feel like when I was neutral, it’s like it was a lot of safe spaces. You know, I’m around different races, but everybody around me is safe. And everybody treats me with respect and everybody loves me. Anybody saying things sideways to me, everybody’s gonna get I’m not just a black people, and white people visit Hispanic people, everybody gonna get them. So like, I get it being in that place where you’re not in that safe space and you get pulled out of that place. And you’re like, Whoa, what the heck is this? I’ve never experienced this before. This is the world this is the real world. Like you said the world was small.

CoCo  20:53  
But that’s what happens to like our our wife friends too, because they’re like, whoa, Coco is my friend like, I love Coco. I love Coco’s family, I have met her family, everything is good. You know, why is the world can be bad, everything is good with my interaction with Coco. So when they do get that veil taken off, and they see that, you know, their interaction with cocoa is not the same interaction that all the other Coco’s in the world have with other people. It’s like, well, what do I do? Like, I feel so bad now to think that everything was glittering gold? When it was it?

Richard Dodds  21:29  
Yeah, it’s great. I mean, it’s stuff that I don’t even think about man, Coco, were talking before the show before we before we started recording, and she was looking at a tick tock, and it was talking about bad days. And they have different skin color band aids. And there’s something I never even thought about that pan days was supposed to blend into the scan. And this is like, hey, plan that band aids or just this color, whatever. And like having representation in bad days is just about

CoCo  21:57  
that in college. Like my advisor, I was president and Activities Coordinator of the Multicultural Student Organization at my school. And one of the lessons that we had to go over, it was about Band Aid. Specifically, it was like, did you know that band aids are supposed to blend in? No one’s supposed to see your band aid when you wear it? And it was like, oh, no, I never thought about it like that. Because band aids have always been the same color all across. So on the Tiktok there was a woman who was furious that there are different color band aids, I think it was the wording on the box triggered her a bit because I said our tone at the top of it, but it had the different shades. And she’s like, well, I’m going to wear this dark skinned band aid. You can’t just you know, keep band aids away from me because as a skin tone, or whatever, opposed to the person who made the tech talk or the white guy, he was like, Oh, you need to unpack that. Because why are you upset that there are more versions of something, the inclusivity of it should be a good thing and not a bad thing to you. It doesn’t take away from who you are, it just adds to other people. Just because why isn’t the baseline for band aids anymore doesn’t mean you need to like start a riot. Because there are more shades of bandaid.

Jai  23:09  
So funny story. This is before Crayola hopped on the band aid wagon. skin tone, skin tone Crayolas. Now, my daughter had a friend who was a white little girl. And she’s like, I want to draw a picture. I want to draw a picture. And I’m like, Okay, let’s draw a picture. And she’s like this stuff, my friend. What color do I use? You call her white? But this is why this is not what she looks like. And she’s like, Well, can I call her peach? And I’m like, You can’t call people peach people. But it wasn’t until you know that then I started thinking you know what, we really do need additional shades so that we can cover stuff. And that’s like a thing that she and I will do will color together. But it really didn’t hit me until she asked that question. And I’m like, wow, like, we really do use the these color words with when it’s not really these colors

Richard Dodds  24:11  
like a black crowd,

Jai  24:13  
right? It’s crazy.

Angel  24:16  
It was funny. I remember. It’s, it’s funny, similar to remembering a story where we were at a dance competition. And these girls came in and they had tights that were there color. And there was a beautiful Coco brown skin and her tights and her shoes matched her skin and I was like, well Gone Girl and everybody came in and they had the flesh tone. And think about it. But like when I was like the one lady that I was with, she was like, oh well that’s not how ballerina is supposed to dress. And I looked and I’m like, But why? I said because the young thing that you’re supposed to see is them on point in there to to. You’re not supposed to notice everything notice the dance and not what she’s wearing. And then I thought about it. And we had like a little thing with kids and they were coloring. And I started looking at the crayons and the color pencils. And I’m like, I can’t Color Me. Cuz I’m in there. No, you know, and I, though is those little subtleties when you find out that your friends don’t understand.

Jai  25:28  
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or like, hey, we all need flesh tone stockings. This was this was that

Richard Dodds  25:38  
going back going back to the by the biracial episode. Sabrina, one of the things that she said on the show was that how many different shades of brown that we are. And you know, just looking in this room right now is right rainbow. I mean, it’s not even the same shade across this room. You know what I mean? So

Angel  26:00  
well, I sunburned so I don’t get it, I don’t get a tan. I go from this high yellow color that I am right now. To bright lobster, Rick might get a little bit darker. But then it peels off because I didn’t burn back.

CoCo  26:17  
So I get sunburned, but I do get darker. So I get a nice golden brown color, which I strive to get all year round, shout out to Aruba. But in the winter times when I am not fortunate to have sunshine, I do get very light and like oh, and like even my sister. So she is very fair for black person. And her eyes will turn green because the melanin in her pupils will recede because it’s so cold.

Richard Dodds  26:45  
Yeah. So it’s crazy to think that holidays, shades are all considered black. And we put so much emphasis like I love being black. Don’t get me wrong. But we put so much emphasis on African American, Hispanic American, we do all of this. And it’s like, I understand the labels. But I feel like the labels are just another way of separating everybody. See, I

CoCo  27:09  
don’t I would say I wouldn’t say we do that. Because we like if I go to Brazil, I’m an American, like, doesn’t matter what color I am what my ancestors used to be. They’re gonna talk to me like I’m an American. If I have to defend I’m like, Oh, snap, you know, I get the whole country on my back not like why I’m only carry into black American side, the Afro American. If I go to Africa, they’re not gonna be like, Oh, yes, come back, you know, and be like, Oh, a little bit more than America’s

Jai  27:41  
pins or which part of Africa okay, because South Africa might point they might look at you like, huh, the same thing with like, the, the eastern part like going towards Egypt, they might look at you to like so it kind of depends. I’ve actually been, I went to Senegal and Gambia. And when I went, I was a teenager, and I went, I hadn’t unpacked all of my hood yet. So

Richard Dodds  28:14  
as you roll up your sleeves.

Jai  28:17  
No. No. Well, I have a thing that’s easy to talk about that. No, but I went over there. Because it’s funny that you guys talk about how you guys basically were neutrals. Like my mom did everything in her power to make sure that I would never be neutral. She She basically said that if you blend in, you won’t be seen ever.

Richard Dodds  28:44  
Oh, wow. That’s that’s

Jai  28:47  
and it’s funny. I don’t know if you guys know about vanilla funk, the, the drum major from from I think Jefferson Davis High School. He I think he’s at Alabama State University. He said something. In his interview when he was announcing what college he was going to. He said, you know, life is like Tetris, right? When you blend in you disappear. So and I’m like, wow, smart kid. So literally went there. They knew exactly who we were getting off the plane. It’s like, oh, you’re from America immediately. Wow, what they first said welcome home cousins. Oh, wow. Then they started checking us on our behavior. They started saying wait a minute over here. The elders don’t carry their bags, you go kit their bags, they don’t carry their bags. Over here. The elder speaks first. So you don’t introduce yourself, your elders going to introduce you. Like they started breaking down. Cultural cultural stuff. Like literally we got off the plane and that’s the first thing we started learning lessons. And then it was just kind of like, you know, they started asking questions like so. How do you like so where’s your children? Where’s this? Where’s that? Like, they just immediately started going to every single negative stereotype stereotype that they had seen or heard about American about Americans. And we had to defend and debunk so many myths. But it was the same for us because we’re like, Yo, we heard the job and how like clothes and stuff, right? Like, where’s the animals? Where’s this bush that you’re always talking about? So it was like, it was fun, but just unpacking like, wow, like, everybody has stereotypes about everybody. And it’s all based upon what media shows us? Yes. Who controls the media?

Richard Dodds  30:39  
Can American media will have you scared of every country other than America? Big? No, don’t do. Africa? No, no, China, no, Russia, no, go to Germany. Every other country except for America is the most scary place but escape places in America. You know, I’m from Detroit. And one of the things that I say is like, when I went to Chicago, I talked to my cousins. I’m like, yo, where can I go? Because I’m not trying to go nowhere where I’m supposed to go. I was like, Detroit has been the murder capital of the world. The United States a lot of times, and but the thing is, when I’m in Detroit, I know where to go and and where not to go. I’m in yo hood. Now you got to tell me where not to go. So just like, hold just like a city. You think about how small a city is in comparison to the world. If a city has good and bad places and places, and Detroit that’s very affluent. And there’s places and Detroit that you don’t even want to go in the daytime. So if that’s a city, you think about a country and a continent, which Africa is a continent made? Oh, yeah, many countries. So we’re just gonna generalize all of that whole continent, based off of the scary parts, right?

Angel  31:47  
No, remember my first roommate, beautiful, blond haired, blue eyed, white girl. And we stay really, really good friends for a really, really long time. And she disappeared and I disappear. You know, you grew up. But I remember that first interaction. And she was sitting on the bed, and she got up really quickly when I walked into the room. You’re my roommate? And I’m like, Yeah, my name is Angelique. Did you have a gun? Yeah. Daddy, Big Daddy. Yeah, baby. Oh, baby, Daddy, do you have kids? Do I have to worry that you you know, you’re gonna shoot me up a crack when I’m asleep? And I’m like I say hold on. Let me introduce you to me. My name is Angelica Laurie. I’m French, Canadian, Irish, black, Native American. Who I am is not the color of my skin. So let’s start this over again. No, I don’t have my app. I have come from a religious background. I’m more afraid of my mother than I am of the police. Because if I do anything wrong, she’s gonna kill me. So no, I don’t have a baby daddy. I’ve never had crack. I’ve never been drunk. I’ve never smoked weed. You’re going to be safe with me. blond haired blue eyed child. But that automatic just because I walk into a room and I happen you know that I might be black. Your automatic when you see me is

Jai  33:13  
Well, I’m sure with a name like Anjali they probably realize, oh, I should be good. You know, cuz some attackers me in trouble. You don’t.

Richard Dodds  33:22  
But like, if you don’t have like a colorful name,

Jai  33:25  
then assume that you’re not. Yeah. Which is weird.

Richard Dodds  33:28  
I mean, I remember the craziest thing is that I remember, J me and J went somewhere. As soon as I finished, I finished the pilot. And we’re listening to the pilot. And the current one of the things that I say is that I’m not a representative of all black people. And, and what Jay was like, it’s crazy that you even have to say that. But it’s true. Because you like, like, when you’re inside of a different cultural group. Like, you know what I’m saying? Like white people, I’m sure they’re not like, Oh, I’m gonna represent all white people. You know? It’s, it’s, I mean, it’s killers is is a is different, you know, what I’m saying is child abusers is some of the most horrible human beings and each set of groups, right, a subset of that group does not make the entire group one represent the worst human being in a group of people. It does not represent the whole entire group

Jai  34:19  
acts. But here’s the thing, though, if people don’t speak up, you’ll never know. That’s the issue, you know, the fact that we have to speak up versus them being able to just oh, well, you know, I’m not and I’m like, do I know, do I

CoCo  34:38  
have to ask the special questions like, you know, oh, let’s make sure we don’t reelect Trump. And then like, you look at them, and they’re like, Okay, all right. We’re good. You know,

Richard Dodds  34:53  
I know black people that voted for Trump if black family members have voted for Trump and I don’t understand why somebody who threatens your well being If somebody I mean, hey, I mean we’re all have freedom to do whatever we want.

Jai  35:06  
Think about it, though. We don’t have to go and be like, Are you a serial killer? No. school shootings are you going? We don’t have to do that.

Richard Dodds  35:16  
But they locked me up in the basement. They

Jai  35:18  
literally immediately if something bad happens at the at a black school immediately think, Oh, what do you guys have metal detectors? Do you have this? Do you have

CoCo  35:27  
it? I had that conversation and my sister school because the first week that I took her I brought her to school. I have custody of my sister. And she’s in high school. She was a sophomore at the time. first week of school, there were three active shooter. False alarms. I went up to the school the superintendent just so happened to be there. I walk in first made me mad because she thought I was a student. Ma’am, I’m 30 Leave me alone. Second, I’m like, you have to do something about this. Oh, it was just some kids being kids. This is not no kids. And we’re going to make sure my sister is safe. Why don’t you guys have any metal detectors? Oh, we have a police officer for the district. You have one police officer for the entire district of students have absolutely not. Well, if we got metal detectors, it’d be like going to the airport, it would take forever. No, ma’am. There are metal detectors at my high school, it took less than five minutes to go through, you put your bag down, you get you’re good to go. I never had to worry about being shot up in my classroom, big fat school. And I went to school in the heart of like Gary, Indiana, like straight out of the murder capital type deal. So it’s like, I’ve never had to be so scared for somebody to go to school. What are you guys doing? And then with this Oxford thing happening recently trigger school for like, three days of that the rest of that week? No, we in the same county as this Nope. And then, in fact, I might want to pull her out of her make her go back to being virtual instead of in person. I’m struggling with that, because she’s doing so much better in person than she did last year in virtual so am I risking my sister’s life? Because you guys don’t want to treat students in a way that would make them feel like oh, my classmates are dangerous, you know, whereas the your classmates really are dangerous, they could potentially do these things that are happening, why not put the precautions in like,

Richard Dodds  37:14  
it’s crazy that they’re so quick to put that in a predominantly black school. But all of these schools that have had these shootings in recent years that have made the news, maybe it’s black schools is happening that hasn’t made the news. But most of those schools have been white schools that suck if I’m not mistaken. It is

Angel  37:31  
it is mostly like I said, I teach social studies. I have sixth graders, and I have maybe a couple minorities, but there is predominantly black school. And one of my minorities was like, I feel safer here in this school was one of my white kids, I feel safer here in this school and I did extra is mostly white, like black kids, they may you know, a black kid get mad, he can take it out on you, he ain’t gonna take it out on the whole entire school, not the whole school, you know. And it was funny because there are a couple, I do have a couple students that I worry about though their conversation and you know, you kind of worry sometimes and then we’re wearing we don’t have metal detectors. And it was brought to our attention, or it takes too much manpower is too much money,

Richard Dodds  38:16  
it’s too much manpower

Angel  38:19  
have to have the metal detector, you have to have the person who shoes them through, you have to have the person who uses the wine, you have to have the person who watches X ray as it goes through. And then you have to have the person who wants them on the opposite side. And I’m like, I went to a high school that had metal detectors. We didn’t

Jai  38:39  
have all that we didn’t need all that literally you and your backpack walk through. Oh, see,

CoCo  38:45  
we had to take our bag, we had to unzip the backpack, put it on the table, they shake it, they check and then keep going for

Jai  38:51  
us and our backpack walked through. So that’s one then somebody checked your backpack on the other side. That’s to

Angel  38:58  
know and I remember being in and I was actually being in high school there was a shooting I had just walked now when I mind you very shelter kid grew up in a church went to predominantly black schools, but they were like run like private schools. And then I went to an inner city, an inner city high school, and I was like, oh my mama die. Like I cry for three days. I’m gonna die. I’m going to die. And she was like, You need to learn more about your black people like my Mama died. Are you really gonna I’m gonna die. And I was the first time I went through the metal detector. We had like officer Grimes we had a police officer. We were right across from the eighth precinct. So if anything popped off we were right across from the precinct so that made my mother feel safe. What is one particular day? I had walked to our corner store and I walked across the street and I heard gunshots literally behind my head, and I’ve dropped and the kid who was right behind me gotten shot. And I’m like, I’m done. Like, so I did go through the metal detector, he went through the metal detector. But when you come outside of the school, there is no metal detectors, a different world, you know, and he had the gun in school, but guess what was given to him first for bathroom, they put it through the window. So it’s like, for me as an educator, I know my children are doing better inside the school. But at the same time, I’m also a mother of a sixth grader and a third grader, and they’re in the school with me. But next year, my sixth grader is not going to be with me. So then I wonder, do I quit and homeschool her to make sure that she’s safe? But then if I homeschool her, what am I really teaching her because in the end, she’s got to go out in the world on her

Richard Dodds  40:59  
own. We are.

Angel  41:03  
I’m sharpening her now. But that whole thought as an educator, and she is a beautiful, multicultural, black little girl. And you see, sometimes she looks Cuban. Sometimes she looks flat. But then it’s like, Baby, you have to know everything that you are. But I need you to make sure. You know for stuff like this. And Oxford, literally from the school that I teach, it was literally 10 minutes away. And then the school that I just came from kick, eighth grader came to school with guns and bullets, there are no metal detectors in that school. And then 13 Kids got suspended from vaping in the hallways, like

Richard Dodds  41:43  
it’s like, no matter where you go at this point is going to be something to worry about. But going back to I’m thinking about, you know, when I was when I was young, and the moment where my innocence in the way that I saw the world completely shifted. You know, I think all of us have that moment, especially as, as black people, is that where you see this world? Oh, it’s just a beautiful place. And then that moment where you’re innocent shift. And as I who, like you know, this, this, not what I thought it was gonna be in your naivete just goes out the window. But thinking about all the things that we’ve been talking about some of the stuff that Jay said, it’s just so important that we have different perspectives. And then going back even further to what angel said, it’s important that we have education, and perspectives kind of sharpen you, and they cause you to think outside of your bubble. And that’s like one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast because I’m a black man that has a one perspective. And as I talk to people, like all of us, all of us know each other, all of us are friends. And we all still have different perspectives. And as you talk about those perspectives, you get more educated because sometimes you only see things from the outside looking in. And it looks really different when you’re on the inside. So somebody has been on the inside of that. And they can share their perspective. And it’s like, hold up, homie. It’s not like that. If you’re actually in here, it looks like this. Right. So I think that’s why it’s important to have conversations. And I feel like when when you’re in a neutral spot, whether you’re a minority or not, and when it comes to minority things, whether it’s women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, trans rights, you know, whatever rice it is, if you’re just on the outside looking at us, and everything is awesome, then you missing the whole point. You really, you really got to take the time, take the time to learn how the individual struggles to make sure that you’re not doing something inadvertently to contribute to those struggles. That mean, you’re right.

Jai  43:36  
At the end of the day, you don’t just go into a situation just knowing how to treat someone. We have to be educated on how to treat each other. And if something’s not cool, we have to have the strength within us to be like, Man, that’s not cool. Just like if you see somebody doing something that’s not cool, call him out a you don’t don’t do that. That’s not cool. And that and that accountability is what’s missing. And there’s a big argument about why do we have to go through all of that. All Lives Matter, not just black lives, right?

Richard Dodds  44:12  
Like, yeah, all lives do matter. But if you look at the statistics, like lives are like I have put, I posted a post for the podcast, and they talked about being a black man talking to white co workers. And if you want to check it out, it’s on. It’s on the social media still talking back. But long story short, it was saying that even though I’ve never been in trouble, I have to make sure I’m respectful so that I don’t become a hashtag. That’s the long short of it. And someone underneath it say, ah, you know, shut up. All races have to deal with a whole cops. And that’s like, I’m tempted to respond, but I don’t want to give it any fuel. But the thing is that yes, all races have to do with aihole Cops, but you don’t have to worry about getting killed.

Jai  44:53  
I was about to say how many of you walk away alive

Angel  44:56  
right now even like with my sixth graders, it was pointed out Like if that was a black kid, that black kid would not be facing charges he will be dead. For Oxford. Yeah. Like,

Richard Dodds  45:06  
isn’t the media crazy in a way that you can read the headlines? And you can tell what race the person is? Certainly, it’s like I saw it. Does it tell you how long ago y’all remember Tumblr? Oh, it was on Tumblr. And it was a, she looked like she was Middle Eastern. And it was going through, like different different scenarios. It was just the science she was holding up. And it was like, oh, a girl gets raped. Oh, what was she wearing? She was wearing something that was too risque. Oh, something happens with a black guy. Oh, he must have had a comment. Oh, something happens. A white guy shoots up a school. Oh, he just needs help. He just needed help. And that is the way that the media portrays. And there’s power in that. Because even if you’re paying attention to it, especially if you’re not, you start to develop a wavelength of thinking that certain things are normal. So whenever it’s like a white male, a lot of times the media ends up portraying it as somebody that’s trouble. We should have saw the signs we should have did this times where it’s been black male victims. It’s been like, well, he had weed and he had went inside the house already. And he did this bag of Skittles.

Jai  46:13  
Okay, so wait, wait, pause. So So even with that, though, even with someone pointing out, hey, this child drew a picture. This child’s picture said they were going to do something right? How

CoCo  46:26  
many flags? I mean,

Jai  46:29  
even with calling parents in and being like, Yo, something’s wrong with your baby, you might want to have them evaluated. If a parent says, Now straight, we’re not doctors, we can’t diagnose education. So we have to just deal with it. Right. And that’s the that’s the issue. And that’s where I know a lot of people are like, well, there should be some accountability for the teachers, there should be some accountability for the principals. But let’s be honest, our hands are tied a child, a child can hit me, but I can’t hit them back.

Angel  47:00  
A child can cuss me out on a regular basis. But if I curse, it’s a problem.

Richard Dodds  47:06  
And the thing that really makes it messed up is that, honestly, I have no proof of this. But the proof is in the way that society has been set up. If that had been a Hispanic individual, or a black individual, and those same things had happened, they would have treated the situation way different from the beginning.

Jai  47:25  
Oh, how about how about if they were of Arab descent? Oh,

Richard Dodds  47:29  
yes, that would have been, they would like they would have had that person like wrapped up right away. And thought of it never would have been a thought never would have been a thought. But the way that we see, I always say it’s not, it’s not necessarily racism all the time, it’s perspectivism. It’s like people see black people as dangerous. So if I’m going up, if I’m not black, and all of my life, black people are damaged, black people are dangerous, black people are dangerous. It’s like me going up to a black bear. I’m not gonna walk up to a black bear like, Hey, how you doing? I’m gonna go to if I’m around a black bear, I’m gonna be Oh, my God ready to attack because this black bear could kill me. And if you see if that’s all you see from black people, you know, see the nuances of the culture, of all the different types of black people will all you see is black people are dangerous. Anything that I go towards, that I see is dangerous. I’m an act one way, anything that I see you’re safe, you’re gonna act a different way. And we should not be putting those attributes like, oh, white people are saying, people are dangerous. You know, Hispanic people are dangerous, too. You know what I mean? Every people here dangerous, we shouldn’t be doing that. Because that that one, it makes you not want to look at an individual. And two, it puts you in a space that’s dangerous for both parties.

Jai  48:41  
So herein lies the issue. Getting to the place in a child’s learning. When it becomes a white is good. Black is bad thing. Right? starts, it starts. So it starts early, but it’s reinforced.

Angel  49:02  
What is reinforced literally, through home through media.

Jai  49:07  
Well, well, the parents

CoCo  49:08  
are the first teachers. So we talked about neutrality from like a black aspect, you know, I just want to see everything come but the media portrays in charity for white people as well. You know, we talk about the mental health aspect of it when it is a sis male offender, because the other people don’t want to accept that that could have been like, that could be me, that could be my sibling that can be my best friend. It’s like, well, I don’t want to call him a bad guy, because I look just like him. Whereas are minorities. We’ve been bombarded with so many different types of stereotypes. And this is bad and that is bad. We have individualization. So we know this person who shot up this thing is not me. It’s not my brother. You know, like it could have been if we didn’t do what we were supposed to but I’m not directly connected to this headline, right? Right. Whereas they feel Direct. connected. So that lady feels attacked by the band aids of other cultures because it’s like, well now I’m not a bad guy because I use regular bed like I use band aids and they weren’t a different color skin tone. I’m not I’m a good guy. You guys are making a big deal out of this. They claim to that neutrality and every time we try to make progress for other things, it’s snatches their neutrality. You know, think about the times when you started to wake up from your neutrality. Yeah, it feels like an attack is like a shattering of your inner

Richard Dodds  50:31  
sea like this. I don’t want to look at the world like this. It can’t be like this

Jai  50:34  
becoming one will be ours. I’m gonna be honest, though. For for most black people, waking up from their neutrality is an attack. It’s usually some attack. Legit, forceful? I can tell you I remember when I woke up from my neutrality, Girl Scouts, we were on our way down to Disney World. We took a bus, our bus broke down in Kentucky. And we stopped at a McDonald’s. And literally people got in cars and left girls, we were little girls, they got in cars and left. They didn’t want their children to play with us on the on the playground. They didn’t want us to eat in the same place with their children. Like and I was like, Why is everybody leaving? Literally got called the N word and spat it? And I was like, wow. Like,

Richard Dodds  51:30  
I’m a kid.

Jai  51:30  
I’m like, I didn’t do anything to these people. Why are they acting like this? And I remember us having to have this conversation on the bus ride as we finally got back on the road. And they were trying to explain to us that, you know, those weren’t nice people, they think things that, you know, are not necessarily true and blah, blah, blah. Childhood right there right there. I was like, I’m over it now. So every time I saw somebody why that was kind of like taking back like, Are you about to spit on me? Are you about to call me to a word.

Richard Dodds  51:59  
It’s like treat me like you treat your puppy? Like, I mean, I feel like some people get more offended to the way that animals are treated, then a whole race of people

CoCo  52:09  
because that race of people have been dehumanized is the key. There’s so many different labels for us that people just take on. And then it’s like, well, you’re not a person. You’re not a human. You are this, you are insurgent. You know, you’re a thug, you’re a drug dealer.

Jai  52:26  
It’s so frustrating. It’s so fresh.

CoCo  52:29  
It happens all the time. Female that’s the one that triggers me a lot of times I hear you refer to a woman as a female. Oh, there’s, you know, the trigger has like, oh, so it we have to do better as a people as a whole to stop taking away people’s humanity like we do

Richard Dodds  52:49  
to ourselves to now. It’s like sometimes it’s like black people will look at other black people sometimes now if you’re not if you’re not cautious. You look like who Oh, and you will feed into the media even though there’s somebody that’s black and you know that all black you want that because you’re you’re black yourself, but you will feed into it. Oh no. Are there trouble? Is it something going on? And it’s like you’re clutching your pearls because you suburban and you in a hood? It’s like, oh my goodness, like what’s going on?

Angel  53:13  
Okay, so I’m gonna get you neutrality. I’m gonna give it to you. The first school that I ever taught it was there’s a jug house across the street. We had to our cars were parked next to Cedric house. Locked up gate. And we had to walk across seven miles. Yep, to walk to the school. And it was like, Okay. Neutral, really don’t know a lot about inner city. I don’t listen to a lot of rap music. I don’t know what they listen to. I can’t do anything with these kids. And then as I got to know them, and then I started well, I’m not going to be in this particular area, because I knew the area wasn’t great. But that even in itself woke me up. And then I’m thinking about the kids that I’m teaching live this every day, every day. They live this, I get to go away from it. So in that sense, even in my wokeness, I had to wake myself up yet again to bring myself to I could be in a house that sells drugs. I could be next door to a trap house, I could see people getting shot. So when I taught them I had to think how to take myself out of my neutral position and teach them how to fight. They’re black shopper in sales. And I have more black boys than I had girls. And then some stuff happened in Florida. Why can I think George Floyd George happened? And it was like the kids came in and they were upset. Yeah. And I’m like, we had to have that conversation and I had to be I we went through Trayvon Martin I went through those and I said I need you to understand is not who you are because people don’t see who you are as a person. Yeah, the first thing they see is you are a black boy from the hood. So you have to bring yourself, you know, and then my brother who is ice called Poindexter. Like he’s that he looks like a, what’s the word I want to look for? He’s that Carlton type of dude. I’ve always thought of him like that. But then it hit to the point to where something happened. And I’m like, wait, but they’re gonna look at him. You’re worried

CoCo  55:39  
about him now.

Jai  55:42  
You told me is when he first got his locks cuz you’re like, cuz I was like, all they’re gonna look at him like he’s just a regular thug. Now, instead of

Richard Dodds  55:51  
that’s what happened with my mom. When I got my locks. My mom was trying to say like, oh, I don’t like them. Oh, don’t do it. Don’t do it. And then later on, we had a conversation. And she was like, You know what, I really do look good. She’s like, I really did. And the reason I didn’t like them is because of the way that other people will probably see you with them or she was scared for you. She was scared for me because

Angel  56:13  
I was and I was terrified. Like NACA, see, you know, he walks he looks like Carlson, he might have an issue, but now he’s ethnic. And maybe they think he got weed in the car. Like,

CoCo  56:25  
same thing happened with my brother got this big tattoo on his forearm that said, Blessed, I was like, oh, no, oh, I’m very much I keep my tattoos private type of person. So I have to on my side, if you don’t, if I don’t want you to see him, you won’t. So I’m like, you know, the ink you want but like, don’t give them opportunity to judge you before you get to speak. Sometimes our blackness it just speaks for us. You know, sometimes as a woman, our hair speaks for us. I Rocca Afro from time to time. And at times, I am very guarded with how I want to be perceived. So I will pull it up in some braids. I will tie it down real tight. So I can make sure that you’re not basing anything off of anything other than what I want you to don’t come in, you know, Oh, she got afro, she can do this. You do that? No, listen to what I’m saying. Look at my data. All right. Now let’s continue, you know, and then other times, I just wanted to speak for me. My hair is my hair. And my appearance is very,

Jai  57:26  
very much tied to your blackness.

CoCo  57:27  
Yes, it is. My mood is my everything. So I’m very expressive with how I look. So if I’m looking a certain way, and you see me it’s a reason for that is always a reason for that.

Angel  57:40  
And that’s that’s funny, because when I when I met you, I was like, Oh, she is like firm believer and her blackness, like, I love that. And it was in for me when I went natural. Like, I second guessed, every single everybody was doing, thinking, you know, MN is one particular day, I was like, You know what? I’m about to rock this Angela Davis from when I say I felt so much power that day. I was like, okay, yeah, I’m black, subtle it. And it was it was it’s an empowering thing. But then as a female in a corporate world, as a female who teaches I’m waiting for that, that principle to pull me aside, like, you know, my principal is white right now. And when I first time, for the longest, my hair was straight. And then when I came in with the curly puff one day, and he was like, Hey, I like your puff. And for me like when you know what they don’t say, you know, cuz that’s not to say not to straighten it, but you’re not just waiting. He was like, I like your, I like your curls. You should wear your hair like that more often. I was like that. So I misread since

CoCo  58:48  
I have a similar thing with that. So whenever I interview I try to have very ethnic hair, right? I need you to know that this hair is gonna be wherever I wanted to be. While I’m there you’re not gonna come to me after I’m hired and good in be like, Oh, no, I don’t like your hair. What’s the policy on hair was policy on clothes? Good. Got it. I had a co worker. He was an older white man, very much a character like he’s telling you story about how he used to do heroin when he was young, and still cars, it all type like he was that kind of old man. And every time I changed my hair, he’d come up like, oh, you changed your hair. How long did it take? Like, as the more time I worked with him, he got more involved. And he told me stories about his hair. Well, I used to have my hair down on my shoulders. I used to think I was a girl. It was like it was good for him that I changed my hair a lot. And I he felt comfortable enough to talk to me about it. Because some people will just stare and I’ve dramatically changed my hair over the years big jobs, braids everything in a week. Like you can see me any kind of way. And they will just look at you and then you’ll the way for you to acknowledge you’re like, Oh, I changed my hair. You’d like it like Oh, I thought you changed your hair. But I didn’t want to say anything. You know, but not us spotting me out you know and I’d get them back to talk about it. I’m like, Oh, you got a haircut. Like, Oh, yeah,

Richard Dodds  1:00:01  
yeah, we talked about hair on the HR professional episodes. And like when I got my hair like going into corporate America, I was like, Oh, we, I don’t know what is about to happen. But you know, from wearing this hair and wearing his hair, we’re PRI and I love looking around. Now he talks about all the people who have locks now and who were there Nashville is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing. But it still so much pushback I’ve been embraced in my company, but at the same time, you know, the different places you go. Coco had a quote before she said that. He said something like, you don’t want your hair to speak before you get to speak. And a lot of times, it’s like when you look at somebody, you’re looking at their characteristics. Your skin tone is already gonna say something about you talk about colorism, whether you’re light or dark. If you’re lighter. Ooh, you must be nicer. Oh, you’re darker. Ooh, something must be wrong with you. If you did the way your hair is the way that you dress. I mean, you know, you could be religious and like trap music. That is a thing. You don’t have to be either.

CoCo  1:01:02  
Religious trap is really just

Jai  1:01:04  
a play with me. Don’t play with me. Yeah.

Richard Dodds  1:01:07  
So I mean, I feel like when we’re looking at other people, we forget about the nuances of ourselves. I’m very eclectic. Like, I’ve listened to classical music, hip hop. I mean, like, we you know how Spotify does the rap. I looked at the rap playlist, your rap? Yeah, so like, my top five songs were gospel songs, my top artists was Drake. My top genre was dance pop, like I was, like, the craziest thing about it is, is that it did this thing or where it sound like your most listened to music. Mine was hype and calm. I’m like bipolar what was going on? So.

Jai  1:01:46  
But that’s the thing, though, like, you can’t just look at someone and understand all of their layers, you know, you only see what’s on the surface, you see what they want you to see. And that’s where I think a lot of our issues that we’re having with other races comes from, because they’re just seeing stuff, they don’t get the opportunity to sit down and have these conversations to get to know what our struggles are, what we’re going through and how there’s a lot that we have in common. They don’t get to discuss those, they just only go off of what they’re seeing. And if you’ve already been told, Well, if you see this, this is what you should expect, then that’s, that’s where we are

Richard Dodds  1:02:25  
we as a people, and when I say people, I’m talking about humanity, we need to get more uncomfortable, more comfortable being uncomfortable, because of certain things that we’re not going to be able to achieve and see eye to eye on and to we get into a place of uncomfortable uncomfort being discomfort, whatever the word is, by being uncomfortable, because, and a place of comfort, nothing really changes.

CoCo  1:02:49  
Well, we also have to get back into a place of giving people grace and compassion, right? We can’t just if we don’t know, somebody doesn’t know, they don’t know, if somebody comes and ask you or they do something wrong, give them grace, but also correct them, give them compassion to say, you know, I don’t think this is who you are, and let them prove you wrong, right? So if you walk up to me, and you’re like, Oh, do you wash your hair? You know, I’m like, No, I wash my hair every week. But my hair does not produce as much oil as someone who you know, have a fair complexion. So there’s no need to wash it every week opposed to now I’m ready to fight you because you said my afro was dirty. You know what I mean? Right? But if you’ve already had that conversation with them, and then you had it with them again, you gave them a little bit more grace, but they continue to be disrespectful, then that’s a different stance that we need to take right now. I think everybody black why everybody is on that defensive stance. At first. Nobody wants to give anybody grace or compassion to even mess up. There’s article where, you know, they called her her but that wasn’t her pronoun. I never met her. So I didn’t know that wasn’t her pronoun, but now this person has been wronged through like, all these different things and just like, sorry, you know, but now you’re sorry, is not good enough, even though you didn’t know. So that’s the same with people’s like race and whatnot. Like you mentioned Paula Patton saying that I don’t like being called biracial. I a black woman. Well, if you don’t know Paula Patton, but you see her out with both our parents you would you could make that comment to say that yes, you are biracial, but you can’t go yelling at this person. Whereas it just is not lining up, give them Grace educate them, but for if they do it the next two weeks, shut it down.

Richard Dodds  1:04:31  
You got a problem right?

Jai  1:04:33  
Now you just being disrespectful,

Angel  1:04:34  
and it does take it does he I can’t walk into a room and say I absolutely know who you are. You know, I’m possibly wrong. You know, the first time I met Jay was over home. Like and it was something we were doing and her attitude towards me scared the heck out. And what are you going to do for my organization like hi You know, and it was like, Oh, nope, not gonna like her. She ended up being like my best friend. So things like saying that, you know, meeting Courtney, if your first impressions are your first impressions, but when you out like my kids their first impression of me was they call me Mama that matter to Metro school teacher, a mama. They saw my tattoo. Yeah. Oh, they think so totally different now, because I haven’t had Oh, she’s well here. You’re not supposed to have a tattoo. Why didn’t you you should get that removed, because people think differently of you. So people think differently than me because I happen to be a black woman listen to country music.

Jai  1:05:40  
Yeah, big facts. You know,

Richard Dodds  1:05:42  
I know at least to y’all got a psychology background. And the thing about psychology is that it says that we have these schemas that we put in our mind, we put people in certain boxes, and then if you get put in that box, everything in that box must fit you perfectly. And it’s I I’m someone who have tried actively to not one be in a box, like knowing that, like, I’m a vegetarian, I’m on time, I’m always early stereotype that black people has like, No, I’m gonna be on time. I don’t like watermelon. I don’t like chicken. It’s like anything. Opposite because it’s like, Yo, I don’t want to be put in a box. Like I want to be an individual. I want to be who I am. And I don’t want you to be able to look at me and think that you know me,

CoCo  1:06:26  
see who I am. I am very fortunate. So there’s a book, you guys should check it out. It has a little test to go with it. And it’s the strengths finder, and it says your top five strengths. Well, one of my top five trends is individualization. So when I meet people, I meet people, when I have that conversation with you, that’s you. And like, I used to work in retail. So I helped me out a ton. Because when you have a customer come in one time you have a conversation, the next time they come in, and you have that conversation about oh, well, how was such and such and such. And then it’s like, Wow, you really made me feel like somebody because you remember this one little thing about me and I don’t even know you like that. So when it comes to people, I think that allows me to give grace because it’s like, I know that you’re not all that you could be you know, like I just because I see you you got on like the University of Michigan sweatshirt or something like that, and a beanie cap or something? Well, you might not even go to University of Michigan. And you could somebody could just gave you that on the street because you were cold. I’m not gonna be like screaming, I don’t know, I’m I am Go Blue. So go away. Party or nothing like this. Hey, you know, I have a very deep test in Michigan, even though I’m not from here.

Richard Dodds  1:07:41  
But yeah, it’s just so much to learn from as being human beings. And we got such a long way to go in that. And we have to actually fight our nature sometimes just to be able to see individuals. And not only that, being someone who’s known a little bit. I’ve met people who’ve listened to my previous podcast, especially, you know, it’s like 50 Plus episodes. And they’ll listen to the episodes. And they be like, Oh, I know, you we relate on so much stuff. And it’s like, no, you don’t know, you just know us like, oh, what I was thinking of how on a particular day, me somebody, even even somebody famous you see them. And like you, you get to see what they what they’ve shown. So that’s why when I meet an individual, I don’t go base about what my friends said about them, or what my coworker said about them. I give them the benefit of the doubt they start out at zero. And then I formed my own opinion, sometimes the opinions that other people had about them end up being right on. Sometimes they’re completely different because that other person does doesn’t rock with that person. And they don’t see eye to eye

CoCo  1:08:42  
does talk about work again. Right. So you just mentioned you know, people know you from the podcast. Yeah. Wow, I make really good data reports. I’m like the numbers person at work, they Hey, can you give me a list of all the vitals and caps for this product type deal? Okay, give me 15 minutes to do. So people get real familiar with my data. And then when they meet me for the first time, so my company got acquired by a company in Germany, when the Germans memo, oh, my god, wow. You know, like, I open it. This is shocking, you know, like this, this young woman, this little black girl type deal. And it’s like, you did all of that. And then or if people sit into my conversation while I’m making a database, right? Because I’m in there. VLOOKUP backspace, data, comma, colon. Oh, you know what, I need to go back into the VBA I need to do this. And then it’s just like I was talking about, they’re like, I wouldn’t, I didn’t know you could do that. I would never guess that she would be able to do that. Or, oh, you know, here’s a database so you can kick out your report in 15 minutes. And it’s like, I didn’t know I needed that and I definitely didn’t know you could do that. So this is not a diss at the same time. It’s like being called articulate, right. Oh, that’s

Richard Dodds  1:09:54  
your favorite really.

CoCo  1:09:55  
I really hate when people call me articulate. It’s like it makes me ghetto in my mind. Because no matter where we were talking, my coworker Brittany guy, he’s so nice. And he’s like, oh, you know, tell me about his black wife all this. And then he was, I was worried about this wedding I need to go to and about what I was gonna wear my hair. And he’s like, they’re gonna love you. You’re so articulate. So this and then in my mind, I was like, what you mean? I lost all that articulation. It was all gone in my mind. And I’m like, oh, it’s frustrating. And I told my boyfriend at the time. And he’s like, but you articulate, you know, you are those things. And it’s like, but you don’t have to tell me those things. Like, it doesn’t need to be said to me. I’ve never heard it said to like, my college friends or anything or like anybody else. Why are you saying this to me?

Angel  1:10:45  
Because of their automatic stereotypes? Oh,

Richard Dodds  1:10:47  
yes. It’s just because it’s like that, when they don’t expect you to do something. That’s when you get caught out. on doing it. It’s like what you know how to code. You’re black. Wow, I never expected that. It’s like, why did you not expect that black people can’t co like, like, I remember having a conversation with a black guy. And I was like, yeah, like, we should go swim. And he’s like, you know how to swim. Are you joking? Right now he’s like, I didn’t know black people could swim. I’m like, you’re black? Like, how do you not know that black people can swim? Why are melanin just float mixes floats to the bottom of the ocean? Yeah, it’s like, just cuz we’re, our melanin just pulls us down to the bottom of the water. Like, it’s like how it’s just things that we’ve been told about ourselves. And that is the biggest danger that I worry about our kids is because, and, and our own music, we’re, we’re telling stories about ourselves and what we can be. And our own movies, we’re telling stories about who we are, who we can be, then we go against the people out of our community, we look at the way that we’re portrayed in different movies, they are telling us how to be the news is telling us how we can be where we can be. And if you don’t raise a free thinker, then they get caught up thinking, Alright, so everything I’ve seen in this media, everything that I’ve heard in hip hop, and everything that I’ve seen in these black movies and white movies must be true. So I’m going to embrace that and I can’t become anything other than that. And that’s why one of the movies that I really love one of my favorite movies is Black Panther. Black Panther was a big budget, predominantly black movie with a black people were the superheroes. We had never seen it like Meteor man was like the other superhero that I remember back then. Not that I

CoCo  1:12:27  
have a budget like man.

Richard Dodds  1:12:31  
But you know what I’m saying to see like non minority kids want to dress up as Black Panther. And even just the word Black Panther, Black Panther looking at where I came from, and went to the comic book was made and stuff like that the original comic book, it’s just crazy to see how far we’ve come and certain things but how behind we are because that wasn’t a slam dunk movie. That was the first superhero movie to him to make a billion dollars, you know what I mean? And then that same year, a movie Crazy Rich Asians came out, and it was predominantly Asian cat cast. And that movie succeeded. And you know, then you talk about Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman was a hit. And so all of these stereotypes live on and and the image, the entertainment industry, when an entertainment energy industry is saying, Oh, we have a predominantly black cast, that movie won’t sell. If we have an Asian cast that that movie won’t sell. If we have a woman, Lee, that won’t that won’t do well, all of those myths got boom blew up. And it just it was more representation, people are showing that we want to be represented in these different industries. And it’s just really important, especially for kids, I feel like

CoCo  1:13:40  
I think that diversity in those industries is important to as not just minority or like that, but like age, because some of those really old stereotypes are being perpetuated because the people who are running them are just outdated. And they can be of black or white or Asia and they can still perpetuate them, because that’s what they’re thinking of the times. So as we start to age out some things and add in more people from other places, we get better, we sharpen we get better and better. And then for like what you were talking about earlier, as far as how do we teach our kids to be who they are. We teach them how to be who they are at home. And then unfortunately, because some people think it’s a bad thing, but we teach them how to code switch, when you are in have to, when you’re in a situation where you’re talking about talking to somebody about something, meet them where they are sometimes I call switch all the time. And it puts me in a position at work where I’m, I’m not on high on the totem pole, but I’m in big meetings because like we need her here because I know I could tell her this and she could tell you what I’m actually saying. Yeah, and with kids, like you mentioned your daughter, where you know, sometimes she’s this little cube and sometimes she’s a little black girl you know, she’s just very fluid if you teach her who she is and then also allow for her to close wish to know that when sometimes if you’re in in a certain environment, you see flag A, B, and C, turn on this switch, you know, you mentioned about being in Detroit and going to Chicago and be worried about where you need to go. Well, I grew up in a really bad part of town. So I know how to code switch where I met. So you could put me in Detroit, you put me in Chicago, and I’m like, Okay, I know what to look for. Because I was, that’s how sharpened right, I still am very much a big kid, I dress up like tacos. You know, my last day I worked before my vacation I had on Christmas leggings, antlers, and a jingle bell scarf. And within like, two minutes, you can put me somewhere and I will be perfectly fine. Because you have to, you don’t want to take away from who anybody is. But you do want to protect them. And to me, Code switching is very protecting. Because I don’t want you to take what I’m saying out of context, or put me in a situation where I’m talking to cop and I get hurt. All because of a simple misunderstanding. You took my slang as aggression, or you know, stuff like that I. But that’s just me, I mean,

Richard Dodds  1:16:06  
HR professional that I had on the show said the very same thing. And he said that we call switch within our own culture. Yeah, I feel like I’ve heard code switching and portray very poorly. And the way that I kind of think of it is that I want to speak in a way that the people I’m around understand it. And if I can speak in different, for lack of better terms, languages, if I can speak in different languages. And I can speak English, but I’m talking to French people, and I can speak French fluently, I’m gonna speak French, so that they understand me because the last thing that I want to do is to say something, and they don’t understand it in a way that I’m in it. Because I want to be overstated. As little I will say,

Angel  1:16:47  
I’d have to meet people where they are like, as teachers we call switch all the time. Because I occasionally, I have to learn the slang of the children absolute sometimes to be able to talk to them. But when I have a meeting with my counterparts, I have to call switch again. And then when I come home, it’s another cold switch. So it’s not we take it as a negative thing. Like you’re trying to be something that

Richard Dodds  1:17:09  
you’re talking why that’s the biggest that’s the biggest answer ever.

Angel  1:17:13  
I didn’t want to because growing up like was some say I was the only chip in the cookie like the dominant, predominant of my friends were away, ever, you know, I was the only black weddings. You’re the only black person there. How do you fit doesn’t bother me, like it’s not a big thing. But then when I go around a whole bunch of black people, even in family events is like, you ain’t one of us while you’re listening to rap music while you don’t do this, and you have to when you call switch for us, a lot of people think is negative, it’s not negative at all. You have to meet people, when I go to my mom to Canada, I have to talk a different way. I try to hide the accent because I get tired of America right? If America was state, like, you know, you’re from America, or then there are other people who come like, who are your people? I’m American. No, no, no, who are your people? But who are you really American? Like, you know, you think but you have to put yourself and I tell my daughter, often, you have to put yourself in a position that people know how intelligent you are. But occasionally you just gonna have to let them know who you are. You know, and it’s hard for her at 11 to understand that she gets older definitely get it she’ll definitely get it and I’ve watched her she calls which is it doesn’t know that she does it. She has certain friends who are a little out there. You’re not a little weird, like not like bad they just as injury to his they’re eccentric. Eccentric he isn’t. She has really smart book smart book smart kids. And then she has some who they just kids. And I tried to get her to say as a you call switch all the time. But it’s not what you would think it is. It’s not always because I happen to speak proper, or I’m gonna talk to you. I’m gonna get oh, like, you just don’t

CoCo  1:19:04  
have to be Oh, I love it in college. It’s so subtle, right? Because you hear when people call home. So everybody talks the same. But as soon as I call home I’m talking a little bit faster because now I’m with you know, the people with my dialect, right? Yeah. And my friend from like, near Guam, her whole accent changed even though she was speaking English when when that phone call home came,

Richard Dodds  1:19:27  
you know, crazy accent pop back out.

CoCo  1:19:29  
You don’t have any control over your Caribbean friends. Everybody is like certain situations where you just is just like a light switch. Or like even as girls whereas like certain things, you see some puppies, you get that high pitch. Whereas normally you’re like yeah, whatever. You know, it’s just it’s a thing that all people do. I just think that some people take more time to craft it than others. Yeah.

Angel  1:19:53  
As a being growing up black. You learn that really early on

Richard Dodds  1:19:59  
because of If you want to succeed and other industry that’s not black, you have to be able to show Oh, I’m not I’m not a stereotype. That’s basically what

Jai  1:20:09  
it is. You’re showing them that you can that you can do the job and you can fit in without there being too much of a problem.

Richard Dodds  1:20:15  
Yeah. And that’s really what a lot of that is. So Well, this has been a great conversation. I would like to thank everybody for participating in the conversation. It was great.

CoCo  1:20:26  
Thank you for having us. My pleasure. This is

Richard Dodds  1:20:29  
like our conversations on a regular basis. This time this is like really like norm was we just sitting here just having a conversation like we normally would, but we just turn the mics on. So I hope everybody enjoyed it. Everybody have a happy holiday and talk to you so keep the party going.

Thank you everyone for listening. Still talking black as a crown culture media LLC production. It is produced by me Richard DODDS. Our theme music was created by the DJ, please make sure to rate and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app. You can follow the show on Instagram and Still Talking Black. Until next time, keep talking

Transcribed by https://otter.ai