Black Professionals Part 2: How to thrive in a work environment not made for you.

Richard Dodds  0:00  
Coming up later in the episode,

HR Professional  0:02  
as our community grows and gets more self empowered companies are still going to be their corporate America still gonna be corporate America. And if it shifts in terms of demographics of you know, CEOs and executive leaders, demographically, their job is still their job. Our struggle as a people isn’t isn’t always an ongoing, there’s no end date, our existence here in this country and in this world is an ongoing thing. And the workplace is one facet of that we can’t let any one facet take us down.

Richard Dodds  0:33  
This is still talking black, a show about giving perspectives to issues that minorities face every day. I’m your host, Richard DODDS. This episode is part two of black professionals, which is a continuation of last episode, where we talked to an HR professional with more than eight years of experience, we’re gonna jump back into that, and he’s gonna tell us how to not only survive, but also thrive in an environment that is not always made for us minorities. When I went, the first year that I was, I went to a university. And for a lot of people that I met, the experience that they had was that I was the first black person that they met. So for them, when they met me, the only experiences that they have any African American or any black person. Mm hmm. Was from television. And as you know, television is not always the best representative of minority. Yeah, you know, television and music is not always the best representation of us, even our own music, thinking about the workplace, because I’m pretty sure that depending on where you work at, some of those experiences can be the same as being in college, because you know, like, all colleges are diverse, and you can actually avoid having talking to a minority in college or going up however you have you get on your path. Yeah. So how have your experience been where you were the first minority that someone has met,

HR Professional  1:58  
I got to ask those same questions. When I started at a university, even a community college, I did a few semesters in community college locally, my metro area. The first black like literally went to community college, like literally, like, just right across a mile for Detroit, and I was meeting white people that had never really had a conversation with a black person before, right, like shorter, like literally driving all eight miles seeing black people driving this. Oh, they drive cars, you know. And I had to, like reconciling the stages. Man. At first, it was just shock, actually talking to some white people and them acknowledging that I was the first black person that they really had a conversation with, or you know, befriended it just let me know, they were just as isolated as I was, because quite frankly, growing up in Detroit, did I interact with white kids, I didn’t, there was one white family on my street. And the daughter went to my school, she was in a different grade. So I know her like that was that’s it, that’s, that’s all there. And high school was 100%, black, we had one white kid in ninth grade, and he left. So they’re just as isolated as we are. And it’s a different experience for them. So after I got over that initial shock, I caught myself falling into the black friend role, so to speak. And that’s happened at work, too. They’re trying to they’re legitimately trying to expand their racial palate, so to speak, and learn more and actually trying to expand their consciousness. But we have to be careful with that. Because sometimes that can be done at our expense at our psychological expense. And that’s something that we have to be wary of. And we have to not just accept being someone’s a black culture teacher, you know, I mean, I mean, I mean, it’s aligned, because we’re not going to them because we have the burden of having to learn white culture and or American culture, we’re what mainstream, whatever you want to call it, we have the burden, or having to learn that on our own. Before we even walk in any of these environments, we have to be aware of the cultural norms. They don’t, in terms of in regards to

Richard Dodds  4:20  
ours, it’s fun to you. You’re the second person who’s come on the show and said, Yeah, we had to adjust and learn what America in quotations is supposed to be like and what the norms are, but not often enough. Do other people have to learn what it’s like to be a minority or a black person?

HR Professional  4:39  
I mean, that’s right. I mean, it’s just that’s that natural imbalance. That’s that cultural structural inequity. So it can become emotionally stressful and wearing when you have a co worker or fellow student, always asking you about Black culture,

Richard Dodds  4:54  
like you’re the representative. Every your perspective is the only perspective and The black hole

HR Professional  5:00  
and that can get masked. And they’re not necessarily asking like save you from Detroit. They’re always asking you about Detroit. irregardless of what side of town you’re from, they’re always asking you about a polar opposite end of town that you know nothing about. Right?

Richard Dodds  5:13  
From the from the really expensive parking. Correct. Right.

HR Professional  5:17  
I was fortunate I grew up in a two parent household, and sometimes you really

Richard Dodds  5:22  
get I’ve gotten like your parents are still together. Wow.

HR Professional  5:27  
So you and your sister have the same father. Incredible. Hmm. Fascinating. And like, and then they just walk away? Right? Yeah, they are truly fascinated by it.

Richard Dodds  5:38  
That’s because their perspective of black people was set before they met you.

HR Professional  5:43  
And you just blew it up. You just You just blew it up. Or, right. Here’s another example, they see a documentary that’s actually about something real. And then they come to you that all of a sudden, they’re an expert, and they’re coming to you as a black hole. And, you know, did you know that Gareth Morgan had the soundbite. And next thing, you know, they’re trying to preach to you about something black, and it’s just not appropriate, right. Like, they’re excited, they’re so excited, they learn something new, it could be that they’re so excited that they’re learning something new that I want to share with you, and try to connect with you. But that’s where cultural competency kicks in, like, we have to become culturally competent enough to not internalize that is really hard. Because in the workplace, that’s where a lot of conflict starts, where they’re not culturally competent, they’re trying to connect, and they don’t know exactly how to, they don’t know exactly how to connect, we get pissed off. But at the same time, we know, they’re just trying to connect, that’s the thing. So we know when someone’s trying to connect with us. And when someone isn’t, no matter how horrible their social skills are, but some of us get so caught up in our emotions that we can’t navigate out of that situation successfully. And that causes a lot of problems in that day, the workplace got rules, you break them, guess what, you’re in trouble.

Richard Dodds  7:07  
I never thought of it from the other angle, just because like my background, even though I grew up, and primarily black neighborhood and everything, I was always exposed to people of different races, like from my high school, from my middle school, like it was always different, different races around me. So it was like I got used to, like my mom has friends that aren’t black. Okay, so I kind of had to really get used to being in different environments with different people. And I feel like my early exposure to that that’s why I was so confused when I got out into the world. And my mom was like, some people not gonna like you because of the color of your skin. Yeah, but I was like, I’ve been around all these different people. Yeah. Now, you know, like they sent me like, why? So it’s like hearing you talk about that from that angle. It’s like, wow, I never thought about like people like getting to college. And it’s like, oh, I never really been around a white person.

HR Professional  7:57  
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I hadn’t spent any, like quality time with white kid. I remember I went, I went to some sports camps on college campuses, and we will stay in the dorms. And it was mostly white kids there. And we were shocked. We’re like, this is basketball camp is here. And we would get the craziest questions. And the first year was like culture shock. For the second year, we kind of made it to a game. And guess what we did, we played into the stereotype. And so like we you know, and it was just, you know, it was it was funny, funny, hard for us. But my adult be looking backwards. I’m like, Oh, my gosh, I sent these all these kids back home thinking, that’s how blind people were. That’s exactly, exactly and when we look at a lot of the stuff that’s seen on TV is media is powerful. So I you know, it does make me happy that we’re taking we’re starting to take more control of our media, but it happens on in regards to us like my exposure to white people in mass was TV too. Yeah, it was very true. Like I said, Yeah, the one white family down the street and the one white girls and went to school and other great and that was it. But in terms of access to like their culture, it was those television for me until I got to college and started working. The isolation comes on both sides. But we’re we’re at a disadvantage is

Richard Dodds  9:15  
we have to learn No, and they don’t always have to learn us.

HR Professional  9:19  
Exactly. That’s that’s the privilege. fundamentally think about the all the hair questions, right? That’s probably one of the biggest ones is

Richard Dodds  9:27  
free. My hair is locked.

HR Professional  9:28  
I totally get it. Yeah, you know, especially when you the beginning process is growing it Oh, yeah,

Richard Dodds  9:34  
it was rough. I was nervous to walk into work. When I walked into my when I walked into my job for the first time I felt like I didn’t have any clothes on. Yeah, yeah,

HR Professional  9:42  
I mean, it’s it was scary. I mean, I used to get questions about having waves. I got sure I hear what okay, like that’s the you know, and get your head away. Right like they don’t even know or they if they don’t even know what’s called what so I just your hair you Yeah, it’s you know, like freshly cut grass. Now by then, by the time I got that question, I had many years of work experience. So you didn’t take it as a, you know, a smile, that coworker was trying to figure me out, they were trying to connect with me, I took it and flipped it without being putting my Malcolm X glasses on, and you don’t I’m saying and turn it into a productive conversation. And so I asked

Richard Dodds  10:26  
her about her hair, that’s a that’s such a burden to have to represent, or a whole like culture. And it’s like, if you’re having a bad day, sometimes you don’t always want to have those teachable moments.

HR Professional  10:37  
There are ways to respond ethically, professionally, to make the person if you if you try to make them feel bad, you can do that in a professional manner, I guess. But just think about the how is just as important, just like is that the how is important? The way they ask? Because if you’re offended, go to HR, if you’re offended, go to your supervisor, all those mechanisms that you feel like they use, I’m doing air quotes all the time, you can use as well, if you need a job in that moment, if yes, yeah, protect your employment, don’t let an ignorant person or a person who may be trying to connect but in it, but in a minor way, cost you things unnecessarily, because at the end of the day, for what, because when you’re gone, and you struggling and not thinking about you,

Richard Dodds  11:22  
I had a song, she said that it’s crazy how black women always get the angry black woman. And it’s like they’re angry. But it’s like, if you look at every other race, other women be are angry as well. But it’s like they’re not like the Angry Asian woman, the angry white woman, it’s like the angry black woman. And if they show any kind of emotion that kind of feeds into that stereotype, but all people get angry, all people get angry. But as sometimes it’s like such a burden to have to reserve in order to like not feed into that stereotype, because they look for any excuse. They look, I mean, people in general, I’m not just talking about white people in general, whenever you have a bias about someone, or anything in a matter, you look for something that can find that bias. Mm hmm. Like whatever it is, you look for something that can confirm it. And you talked about a little bit already, but how have you handled time for coworkers and unintentionally offended you asked you because they didn’t know any better ask you or talk to you and say something because they didn’t know any better

HR Professional  12:27  
correct them in a way that informs them. And I just talked about not being a civil rights professors. You know, if someone says, If someone in the workplace says something to you, it’s it’s just factually incorrect. They’re making a reference to you about your culture that you know, is not correct. I’m not talking about right or wrong. I’m talking about incorrect, just like if it was on a work issue. I think it’s totally okay. To educate them on that. If it’s in a public setting around a lot of people, you may want to have the Hey, can I talk to you for a second? Because what they said that maybe didn’t break policy, but was incorrect. Yeah. Because they’re ignorant. you retaliate by some kind of attempt that embarrassment or, or you get so emotionally charged, that you put yourself in a position to get, you know, performance? Manage? No, just pull them to the side? And talk to him about now? If it’s one on one, right? That’s one dynamic, if it’s, if it’s one on one, you could disagree? Well, you know, I’ve never experienced that. Because the community I grew up in, not quite like that. Well, you know, and then you explain, and they could go really, and you can say, I mean, yeah, I’ve never seen that. I

Richard Dodds  13:44  
didn’t think about a two year sentence. But it was a it was an interaction that I had with a somebody that I had worked with, I don’t even know how this came up. But I will say like, you know, I hate when I go to restaurants, and I automatically get placed with a person of color. It’s cool. Like, I don’t have a problem with it. You know, I love supporting my people. But it’s like, every single time I was like, it seems to deliver it. And she was like, what how she responded was that they we see Cha with people of color, like we get your your server to be the same color because black people don’t tip and she made that as a definitive statement. And I was like, Excuse me, that’s not true. I was like, I took very well. And she was like, No, I used to be a waitress. Black people don’t tip and she reinforced it like she was an expert on all black people. And it’s like, at that point, you know, you kind of it’s like what not to, it’s like you kind of have to bite your tongue. But it’s like wow, that’s really ignorant thing to say is is

HR Professional  14:41  
it’s a nerd thing to say. But yet if she’s going off the reality of her experience was messed up about that is that’s what that again, that’s where the how just goes wrong. Right. That white person that had that experience, you know as a black person that’s not true is not true. There. Are there white people that tip for Earlier don’t tip of course there are there. Are there everybody? Well, yes. Is it all of us? It’s a spectrum, right? The culturally competent person, both sides, all it takes, she could still tell you that experience and say is somewhat differently life. Just in my experience. I don’t know what it was. But when I was a waitress,

Richard Dodds  15:19  
and I would have changed the whole thing, yeah, when she put us matter of fact, that kind of ended the conversation. I no longer won the educator. Yeah, I just kind of wanted to walk away from the situation, right? I don’t really want to talk to you. Right. Okay. And

HR Professional  15:31  
you have to write you have to emotionally like gauge yourself. Is this the moment where the education? That’s a yes or no question in your mind? If you got to ponder about that? No, no, exit stage left, because at the end of the day, if you’re emotionally charged, and you may react in a way that could when I was going on there, my check a box on the stereotype, just get out of it. Because you’re not I mean, because at the end of the day, like that’s nothing personalized towards you, the person doesn’t know you well enough. We’re talking work, the person doesn’t know you well enough to fully gauge you as a human being they only see what’s in front of them. They’re only looking at the moment. Because again, when someone leaves a company when they you know, you have big work party wish you well, blah, blah, blah, the next day, they are caught, right. I did not retire in jerseys at work. Okay, so, so don’t let one ignorant person knock you off your square don’t own their ignorance, basically, that’s easy to say. But leave that part the ignorant. They don’t that’s theirs. Yeah, that’s theirs, that will happen. And as the world has changed, as we’re seeing people still doing ignorant things, it’s costing them new jobs, it’s costing them lawsuits, in some instances, costing them their freedom. Do you know so it’s organically starting to happen, don’t let that put you in a position that will cost you anything dear to you. It’s not like, it’s not like they’re going to be anymore.

Richard Dodds  17:00  
And not gonna be any wiser. They’re just gonna like, See, I told you that they Yeah, well, at least she learned

HR Professional  17:04  
a lesson are you gonna learn Eli locked up and out of a job now, don’t let their ignorance cost you or I mean, even even ruin their day, I mean, ruin your day, I appreciate, you know, when I hear stuff like that, as an HR person doing investigation, or you know, anything like that, I have to reconcile that first, I have to slow down, reconcile that first and give it back to him. It’s gonna penetrate you. And it’s gonna sit with you. But you have to make a decision to you know, I’m gonna give that back. I mean, we have to do that with each other. Yeah, sometimes we do in our own neighborhoods, and our own communities, and our own families, even either ignorance, or even that purposeful vitriol coming to you. And it’s gonna penetrate you, because you’re a human. You wrestled with it for a while, but you got to make a decision for your own self preservation, and give it back.

Richard Dodds  17:54  
I remember I was working somewhere, and they had like, spare week. I love participating. Like, wherever I’m at, like, I want to give my all I want to participate. I want to be a part of the community, I want to help the community be better. And one of the spirit days was Crazy hair day. Okay. All right. So my hair is locked. Hmm. You know, like people call them dreadlocks. I don’t like to call them dreadlocks because my hair is in dreadful my Harris locks. So the thing is, is that historically, dreadlocks, quote unquote, have been frowned upon and caught on different names and, and different things. So for me to do something where I colored a color my locks, or put them in a crazy configuration, and then send that that picture out to the rest of the company. I just, I went back and forth with it. Yeah. And I just said, at the end of the day, I was like, I was like, I don’t think my team was like this. But I can’t, I can’t send this picture. I can’t, I can’t do something like that and send it and give somebody else who sees this as an excuse to say something derogatory. And it’s not even that I thought somebody would, it’s just a possibility. So that was a very sensitive subject. You know, when I happened, I was like, how do I communicate this with my team?

HR Professional  19:10  
Right? Because it not, did you feel like it was unintentional. Like they’re not, you know, they’re not trying to get it and trying to put you in a position to demean yourself.

Richard Dodds  19:19  
Honestly, I don’t think anybody thought of it there. You know what I mean? But even even with that, having my thoughts, I didn’t know how to communicate it with minorities to where they don’t understand right, so much. So my question for you is like, what would be your advice on communicating sensitive subjects as as a minority? How do we, how do we communicate when I know are these sensitive subjects like that something that might be deep and important to us? Right?

HR Professional  19:46  
I think first as you’re preparing to communicate that because yeah, there’s some things that you just you have to because this is affecting your moral compass or it’s affecting your you feel like you would demean yourself by doing so. Why you think about that, how to approach him, that’s always a good idea. Because, again, this is work. And this is business and good. And morale ultimately, you know, helps the bottom line. What’s the alternative? And or in addition to or so say a Crazy hair day, and you know, hair hairs a deep personal issue with us. Yeah, even within us. Exactly terms of the spectrum of hair texture, offer an alternative to that on that day.

Richard Dodds  20:29  
So it’s trying to figure out how is this something that was tough, and I really wanted to tell my group at the time, like, wow, I didn’t want to participate. But I remember I was in a meeting with them after that, and I wanted to be like, Hey, I didn’t participate because of this and explain it to them. But then, you know, you don’t know how they’re gonna act. Yeah.

HR Professional  20:50  
I mean, if you, you know, if you have a reasonable alternative, I would say me the how how you deliver it to is very, very impactful. Because what’s your goal? Is your goal for them to feel bad? That’s a yes or no question. If the answer is no. Hopefully is no, it’s not for everybody. No, it’s not. It’s not the answer for everybody. Right? If the goal is is for them to understand your perspective, versus feel bad, right, I think, again, acknowledge, you have to be a little vulnerable, a little, not too much, and then have an alternative, right? Because one thing that white people are scared of in the workplace, anything that would make them believe that you think they’re racist, right? You know, you got to be conscious of okay, if I, if I say this, depending on how I say it, it could come off as me saying that you’re racist, then now you got a whole new set of issues, you know what I mean? So say, in an instance, for Crazy hair day, I get these kinds of calls all the time, actually, like, not Crazy hair day, but like, situations where someone proposed something that is unintentionally offending someone, and they have to, in order to not either do that activity or correct it, somehow, the person offended has to initiate it, because the person that that initiated it didn’t, they didn’t know No, and to people that wouldn’t affect it is a fun thing. So you got to think, Okay, if I want this person, just understand where I’m coming from, you got to state how it affects you the how like, like, your personal make it personal to you versus to your culture, or to your race, this is how this affects me. And this, it affects me because and then you can give them a little cultural context. But it’s really more about you, because they’re not really even trying it. That’s not even interest. That’s the luxury. That’s the privilege, right? Yeah, I’m like, say, you know, I was in a similar situation where a work team I was on, they want to dress up, like, it was a movie. And it was like a cartoon movie. And so it was all different animals, and I’m not dressing up like an animal. Sorry, not gonna happen. And I didn’t have the words to really communicate that, and the cultural competence of my team. They were wonderful people, very nice. People never never said a mean, or cruel words treated me well. But they weren’t the most culturally competent. So I found a human character.

HR Professional  23:22  
And because I did, I took a full assessment of my life at that time, and I wasn’t in a position to rock the boat, per se. And I didn’t have the words to even explain how I’m how I’m explaining it to you now. But I still found a way to get, you know, to navigate around and still participate. Because Because and that’s the thing, too, when you got activities like that, that are unintentionally making you uncomfortable or unintentionally offending you, you’re not declining participating in the concept of the activity and the purpose of the activity, you’re, you’re saying how this specific way of doing it, right, really puts me in a position where I feel like I could be damaging myself. And in the era now, where more people are acknowledging the fact that mental health is a real thing, it’s about you, in that situation is not you know, you’re not a crusader. You’re not a crew, you’re not a freedom fighter in this scenario, this doesn’t work for me. And let me explain why. And it has nothing to do with trying to raise morale by having this activity, but this way we’re doing it this way isn’t going to work. So let’s talk about some other ways. I mean, I mean, you know, I mean person, a person, you know, we’re, we discount our adulthood, a lot of times, I feel like and if that manager can’t meet you where you’re at, and consider you, I don’t think that’s a good manager. If your worst case scenario comes up, you feel like you know, you’re being treated differently in the workplace. That’s a different issue. Right? You know, that’s, that’s something else that you should definitely utilize your resources your HR department for. And if you still don’t see any resolution, I mean, then again, you have the power choice. And I always encourage people to if they have to leave an employer, because of how they treated, there’s usually an opportunity to give your feedback on the experience. A lot of people don’t take advantage of that. Yeah, so slider there, I mean, you should do it, I always recommend to do it because it does get read. And if it doesn’t change, again, real change happens outside of work, if you really want to impact structural change, you do have to put in that work outside of work to do so. And some of us, you know, some of it is just personality to I mean, I see a lot of conflict between same race, whether it’s minorities, managers, supervisors, too, I mean, you can have a manager that is trying to lift up everyone, so to speak. So, you know, we got to be careful, I’m gonna be harder on you than I am on. And that because it’s not just because they’re trying to lift everyone up, because they have an internal fear of favoritism. So that was tough. That’s a tough one. That is that is extremely

Richard Dodds  26:09  
tough, especially hiring like, right, so you’re hiring somebody, it’s like, do I not hire someone black? Like, if I hire someone black? I don’t think I hire someone black just because I’m black. Like, right? You know what I mean? So it’s like, are they the best qualified? Or did you hire them? Because they’re black. It’s kind of, it’s always like a slippery slope. And I think that we internalize, and we have to think about a lot more than that. Then other people might not realize how much of that oh, actually thinking about constantly? Yeah,

HR Professional  26:37  
absolutely. Because because we have, we have this dual struggle, right? We advocate for more minorities in the workplace and more minority managers, right? And then say that happens, right? And then, you know, now you got more minority managers, with minority subordinates, where so it’s still going to be work, politics is still going to be good performers, medium performers, for performers, audits still going to start happening now. Again, why are you there? And do you have a sense of self before you walk into the workplace that really kicks in? Because now you now you are effectively killing any argument? About you think there may be some bias due to race? Yeah, there’s bias everywhere. It’s not always due to

Richard Dodds  27:19  
race. I mean, bias due to race can be biased, like you said, before race to race, it could be like, someone could think that, oh, you’re a manager, you’re aligned with them? Yeah, you don’t care about us anymore. Like, it could go as simple as that.

HR Professional  27:34  
You don’t you don’t you don’t know. Right. You don’t know anyone’s motivation for being where they are, how they got there. I mean, they could tell you, and they could tell you something that’s inaccurate. At the end of the day, you can’t let a job because even within your career, you have a trade, you have a career companies give you an opportunity to practice it. So I’m a career HR person working for a company, I can take my career to another company, or become or start a business or, you know, some kind of practice with it. Don’t let your job ruin your career, you got to separate those two, you got your career, your craft, and your job is kind of different, even though you’re practicing, you could be practicing your craft within your job. But still, it’s no one owns that the company owns that job, not you. So that manager could be your same race, and they’re still an agent of the company. And they got to look out for the company. Yeah, at the end of the day, you have a good rapport, good professional relationship, it’s still a manager relationship,

Richard Dodds  28:32  
you still got rules that they have to follow that make sure that they are

HR Professional  28:36  
exactly, exactly you know, and they have their own, you have to consider everyone has to consider you still black, whether you’re black manager or the black, like so all those fears that we have about the workplace can go with us as we move up so best believe that black manager is not going to lose their job or their career is scary. We’re hooked up. That’s scared. We’re in workplaces, hooking somebody up or over accommodating a poor performer that happens to be the same race

Richard Dodds  29:08  
just like a company you got to preserve yourself and whether Yeah, whether it’s the same race or not, we’ve talked talked about it on the show before is when you get in a position not only do you have to perform but you have to perform exactly you have to have you got gotta get it you got to get it like you have to go for it.

HR Professional  29:29  
As our community grows and gets more self empowered companies are still going to be their corporate America still going to be corporate America and it’s someday if it shifts in terms of demographics of you know, CEOs and executive leaders demographically their job is still their job our our struggle as a people isn’t isn’t always an ongoing there’s no end date to it. There’s no of this just happens is over. We’ve gotten we’ve had a black president check his struggle over no struggle. We’ve had a lot of work exactly exactly. Our existence here in this country and in this world is an ongoing thing. And the workplace is one facet of that we can’t let any one facet take us down, like any aspect of one facet. You know, we can’t let our family histories that may have affected us in a negative way, take us down, we have to overcome overcome those. That’s my advice to people don’t let one instance give someone more power over you than they already have. Don’t let a situation take hold of you at work.

Richard Dodds  30:33  
If you like what we’re doing here, I’m still talking black, the best way to show your support is by liking writing and sharing our content. Another way to help is by making a donation using the link in the episode description. We’d like to thank everybody for listening to the show, your support is greatly appreciated. What advice would you give someone struggling to fit into a Vironment? The culture isn’t inclusive.

HR Professional  31:01  
I think in those instances, depending on where you are in your career, think about that first. This is first time I’ve dealt with this, because you’ve been working 20 years, you definitely it’s not the first time but you know, you got to get real with your own story. If it is truly your first time. Honestly, I think companies have EAP programs, we get access to free therapy, it can be fairly traumatic, to be an early career employee, like we talked about earlier, you walk in, you got the job, you got the job, that transition from getting the job to survive in the job is hard. It’s not easy. And you may need some emotional support, get help, don’t sit there struggling. Don’t do it. Again, if you’re a more experienced employee, and you’ve dealt with this time after time, again, is some reflection time. Like why you keep picking these jobs that work for these companies

Richard Dodds  31:54  
that are you know, asking that to begin, right, right? Well, red flags, are you missing? Right?

HR Professional  31:59  
Either the red flags? Or are your expectations misaligned? Are you are you going to work expecting something that you should be looking for out of work? What are you looking for, because it’s different for everybody, it really is. Some people use work to make friends to fulfill some personal thing in their life, that you really need the line, then the place matters more than the job. So you really should extensively research work cultures more, if it’s really about your profession and a bunch of trade and you’re in your craft and you’re going from place to place to place your black, most people in your professional white, and you keep getting trauma you keep re traumatizing yourself over and over again, is it could be that your expectations are misaligned. If they are, I would really encourage that person to really do a deep dive in that within themselves. And again, you know, pot, you know, even therapy as an option. Because we’re can psychologically it you know, just like any other major aspect of life, it can it can traumatize you and don’t let it get get help seek out mentors outside of work. If you can, that’s a silo, you know, in addition to not as us to have you feel like you can’t sleep you feel like your day to day functioning is being impacted. Please get help for that. There’s no shame in that. Do the best you can I mean, you know, do the best you can. If your performance is suffering, because that bad that your performance of software, don’t give them the opportunity to tell you to go figure out a way to

Richard Dodds  33:23  
leave some find something before

HR Professional  33:25  
it. Yeah, it’s just it’s a relationship. You know, the employer employee relationship, sometimes it does. It’s just not working out. Like and and that’s the bottom line. And you may not be able to get the space to figure out why it didn’t work out until you’re after you’re gone. Acknowledge humanity. It’s okay.

Richard Dodds  33:42  
What five tips would you give young black professionals entering the workforce?

HR Professional  33:46  
Don’t over celebrate getting job, you’re smart. You accomplished. They called you back because your resume look good. Probably trained and practice interviewing. Especially if you got good at behavior based interviewing. You got the job because you perform well, job interviews, a test, you passed it great, put in the rearview mirror. Maybe have a nice dinner or something but don’t over celebrate it. Second tip, like I said earlier, when you come into the workplace for the first time, you’re going to get a lot of information. Pay attention to how people interact with each other. Why? Why do you want to act and why people interacting with women? The jokes that are told the casual conversation has had, how was your weekend? How much do people actually share pay attention to how individuals interact with each other? Number three, pay attention to how meetings are ran. We often we can’t I mean anybody you can you can gather you can you can set yourself back in a meeting pay attention. Pay attention to how people respond how people provide input input. Number four, crack open the handbook. Just do it. Okay, I don’t give everybody that advice. I usually give managers bias, but it’s good to know know where it is. I’m not saying like, read it for pleasure, but just know know where everything is in the handbook. And number five, pre plan your time off as much as possible is, especially your first couple years. Because your first couple of years, just like everybody else, you’re actually trying to, like, get good at whatever you’re doing and you’re gonna burn out easily, you’re new on the job you’re gonna want to impress. Try out your time off, when your manager in the meeting starts talking about time off in advance, because pressure mounts up and you won’t be compelled to do that. Like, you know what workaholism in addition to, you know, the pressure of being black in the workplace. We’ll, we’ll do a solid.

Richard Dodds  35:44  
I feel like you got a real personal with that last one.

HR Professional  35:48  
Yeah, cuz I need to practice what I preach. I

Richard Dodds  35:51  
need to practice, too. Yeah, I have a hard time. Yeah. taking time off.

HR Professional  35:56  
I mean, that that. I mean, I think that’s a habit that if you establish that earlier, early in your career, I think this generation coming behind us, quite frankly, will probably be better than that, then I definitely think so. They’re more emotionally in tune. And that we were.

Richard Dodds  36:12  
So you’ve covered this a little bit already. But if you’re having a problem with discrimination, or unfair treatment, or if you think you’re having a problem with fair treatment, or discrimination, what resources can you seek internally,

HR Professional  36:24  
I would always recommend, go to your supervisor first, gauge it, see if they take it seriously, if they do not. That’s why I said, going back to opening that handbook, contact HR, that’s the first place to go. That’s the place that that addresses it. I’m just telling you as a HR professional, because even if you go somewhere else within the company, it’s coming HR to address if you want it addressed successfully, the chances go up, the sooner you report it, you wait days, weeks, months, the farther away from when it actually happened, the more speculative it is. And it’s not doubting that it’s not about what you say so much. It’s more about what you can prove, you know, and if you if it’s done in a relatively short, within a day or two of it happening, the chances of it HR being able to successfully investigate and prove it go way, way up.

Richard Dodds  37:19  
So should you come to HR with documentation, if you can, like, do you say emails, like,

HR Professional  37:25  
absolutely, absolutely anything happened in writing, save it emails, and text messages, get people in trouble all day long. You see it outside of work, it definitely happens within work. And especially if there are witnesses, if it’s if it’s verbal in there, and there’s a witness, definitely reporting that sooner rather than later. Because as the longer time goes, maybe even your witnesses may get skittish. But definitely address it quickly. If you’re, you know, if it’s if it’s that bad, you want something done about it, sooner is always better, and you cannot legally be fired. For reporting it. I have to tell people that a lot of you know a lot of time, again, going back to when you walk in that organization, crack open the handbook, know where everything is just know, that’s you can’t do it. I mean, that’s like against the law, you can’t do that. And if it’s proven that that can really put companies in a bad way. So like companies do take firing someone very seriously that every company has a process that requires a meeting. It is not just your boss calling you in on a whim and firing you is not if you’re feeling discriminated against if you’re if you’re feeling any kind of adverse treatment towards you, because of who you are what you look, I look like for any reason outside of your performance, contact HR.

Richard Dodds  38:48  
I know it was varies from from professional profession. But typically, what are some external resources that you can tap into? Like I know if you’re in a union, you can usually tap into the Union. So if you feel like that’s happening, and you tried to maybe you tried to internal sources, what are some external sources that you can tap into for something like that? Well,

HR Professional  39:09  
if you need assistance outside of work, at no cost to you, you can file a complaint with the EEOC. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is a federal department each Most states have their own state version. So whatever state you live in, there’s usually an office you can call but you can go to you can go to their website, I believe they will direct they can direct you to your state, because they will prefer a lot of incentives for you to follow up with your state first, but you can you can directly file, file your complaint with the EEOC and they do reach out to employment to the employer. That’s why employers have legal departments in HR and then we deal with it from there and they advocate on your behalf. And that’s that’s something the federal government provides. So there’s plenty of ways to report unfair discriminatory treatment.

Richard Dodds  39:58  
You see that kind of stuff. but you don’t always realize what it stands for you see it all plastered all over everything EOC and all these other different things, and you don’t always know what they are and how to use them. So I think that’s really good advice.

HR Professional  40:12  
Yeah, keeping up with things that can data that you have that could possibly prove it. That’s good to do. But yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s why I say, open a handbook, get a feel for what the, what the companies tolerate and what they don’t. And really pay attention to the work environment, really pay attention to how people interact, because the culture is played out every day. And human interaction, whatever the task is, or the other of the job, is what it is. But culture is a is about everything, outside of your work tasks.

Richard Dodds  40:45  
So how do you think we can find some of our own biases in the workplace, to make sure that we are being inclusive to other groups as well

HR Professional  40:53  
think about intent of whatever’s being said to you, and be intentional about intentional about what you say to someone else. Intent. I mean, it means a lot like because intent influences how you communicate. So if your intention is to educate yourself, whether you’re asking someone else, as a minority, to a someone of a different culture, something about their culture, think about how you would want to be asked that appropriately. I mean, consideration is, is critical, being considered how someone could feel, and it goes both ways. And it goes both ways. The workplace is a complicated place, it’s a place that’s structurally not set up for people like us to really thrive in I mean, that it really wasn’t as you know, the American workplace, it was just not set up for that. So everything that’s been done so far, for us to even exist in it, to a degree has been on top of the core structure that put it together in the first place. So when it comes to yourself, and your job and your career, anyone should, I think I said, I’ve said it probably several times, I know I sound like a broken record, you got to really have a sense of yourself and who you are as an individual, before you walk in the door, and who you are as who you are, of course, we all have a professional side to ourselves. But when you’re operating in your own in your profession, in your job, that’s not the rest of your life. Don’t let any job, don’t let it Don’t Don’t, don’t let any job that’s difficult, affect the rest of your life. If it if it is affecting the rest of your life, you got decisions to make, you have just as much choice as an employer you do, you know, and it’s hard, like you may have, you may have life situations where it’s structured around the hours of that job. So if you got another job, you don’t know if they will be hospitable to that, I get that. But fundamentally, don’t discard the fact that you are that you’re black or whatever you are, don’t leave your whole self at home. But at the same time, you don’t have to put yourself in a position to be a freedom fighter. If that’s not you, if you are a freedom fighter, and you’re in a highly resistant workplace, you may be in the wrong line of work. Because real structural change, you know, it comes outside of the structure, because then because the structure, it affects business objectives, it does. When real change starts to happen, laws get passed, all kinds of things that happen riots happen, right? Because that company has to figure out, okay, how can how can we not have that happen here. Now, if it happens, they’re easy removed, the people that you know, that started. So you really got to think about like, you know why you’re there. I know, we’re all there for a paycheck, and benefits. But as a minority, you have to think more holistically than that, that job is not your career, is your job, your career is whatever you do. And so if one if the job you’re at, won’t promote you, promote yourself, get another job, get a higher level job somewhere else not get but start preparing yourself, for your self promotion. I mean, I’ve done that in my career, I’ve worked somewhere and didn’t get promoted. And so I took time to prepare myself for a better opportunity. That’s okay, that’s still winning, you’re still winning. If you make a decision after after an attempt to get promoted, didn’t work out there, and you’re upset, you’re angry about it. Makes perfect sense. Don’t let it take you over. Somebody will hire you at a higher level. And you can still celebrate, but not too much, not too much. Not too much. Because it’s not over. It’s only the beginning.

Richard Dodds  44:41  
I’ll say work is a relationship if you spent any amount of time in a relationship at the end, if that relationship ends at the end of that relationship. If you get out of that relationship. And you say you wasted X amount of time and you haven’t learned any lessons and you haven’t grown any any little bit, then you really need to look at yourself because every situation has an opportunity for for growth, and an opportunity for learning, maybe the things that you’re going through with this one position, maybe you take what you can from that, and you take it to launch you up somewhere next, or you take it, you take what you learned from one person, you learn the business inside and out, maybe they won’t give you the position that you want. But you can observe the position, then you can go out and maybe create that position for yourself and your own business is, as always a lesson.

HR Professional  45:30  
Absolutely. And sometimes, the company may see you fit somewhere, that company, and that’s their vision of and you have a different vision for yourself. So it’s, you’re well within your right, to go and act and play out your vision for yourself. And my career. One thing I haven’t seen a lot of is a lot of minorities getting promoted several times in the same company. Or if I come to the company, and they are in leadership that came from somewhere else, that’s something I think that needs to improve. But at the same time, Americans are quitting their jobs and job hopping, that’s been the trend for everybody in instances. So if you’re not getting your needs met, just I can’t have a relationship. If you’re not getting your needs met, you have you have a whole lot of choice there. But prepare yourself. I mean, whether it’s going to going to school, whether it’s networking, your professional organizations, all of that, you know, but don’t run a monkey their way. And we celebrate our education our organizations, sometimes to a degree, that the meat and potatoes get ignore, like, Okay, what do you do? Like, how are you a highly skilled professional network? Join professional organizations? I

Richard Dodds  46:38  
work? Yeah, whoo, that’s you. Yeah,

HR Professional  46:40  
I mean, but a professional networker is a professional network. Okay.

Richard Dodds  46:44  
What do you do with that?

HR Professional  46:45  
What do you do with that network? So people get so good at that, that it distracts from their actual day to day job? So you know, you got to balance that out?

Richard Dodds  46:52  
What can you do? I think what I like to do when, from my professional career is look at where my weaknesses are. And then I see my weaknesses. And I say, okay, how can I either change the position I’m in, or change the job that I’m in to where my weaknesses in this position, become my strength?

HR Professional  47:11  
Absolutely, you could work for a company where the culture is very serious, and very stoic. And you have a very like upbeat nature about yourself, I could be a social negative, and ruin you. So find that company that you can do, you can practice your profession. And generally, it’s a personality match, you’ll have longevity there, you’re more likely to have longevity there. And with that longevity, because as a person personality match, you can build relationships, there’s nothing more critical in the workplace than the ability to build relationships. And with built relationships, now you have an opportunity to be heard. Now you have the opportunity to talk about what we talked about earlier in terms of offering that different perspective to a leader that will listen to you because they trust you that in combination to educating those of us on the outside trying to get in on really doing the work to even get in or figuring out if that’s even for you combination of those two things inside outside that moves the needle. It’s not solely, I’m going to complain to the company that they’re not hiring enough minorities. Do you work in recruiting? No. Are you looking at who we actually hired? No. Do you know about who places jobs? No, did you just feel that way? Because you just see a bunch of white people working there, that kind of like, fast, quick assessment. That’s what goes on in meetings at those higher levels. It’s not the same kind of deep dive about the one, the one topic that you’re passionate about. For them is one of many topics. It’s a very important topic, because if they get it wrong, like the ramifications are huge. And more companies know about that now. But when you when you pose that, that scenario to your leadership, it has to tie into how it affects the company in a negative way. Or how if paid attention to couldn’t make something good, better than I pay more attention. Just me person, I feel like we got to get more into our feelings in our communities versus the workplace. At the end of the day, someone’s paying you with their money to perform a job for you. If you can’t stand that and you feel there’s no mobility in that wherever you do, then you need to create your own. And then it’s a different conversation with yourself you need to have

Richard Dodds  49:30  
I want to thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate that you dropped some really good gems.

HR Professional  49:34  
I hope I did. It’s been an honor talking with you today in this forum and everybody just keep doing the best you can.

Richard Dodds  49:41  
That’s all I have for you for this episode. But before you go, I like to put a little spotlight on spotlight on melanins the part of the show where I like to spotlight a creator influencer artist, business owner, or activist of color. Today I would like to spotlight Andrea Renee. Andrea Renee is an author, speaker, and dialers she released her first book last year named we our favor. That is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I made sure to leave a link inside the show notes. You can find Andrea on Instagram at Draya uplifts and str EA uplift s. If you or someone you know would like the chance to be featured on spotlight on melanin, send us an email at spotlight at still talking black.com Please include links to their social media and why you think they should be spotlighted. So again, thank you everyone for listening. Still talking black as a crown culture media LLC production. It is produced by me Richard DODDS. Our theme music was created by the DJ, please make sure to rate and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app. You can follow the show on Instagram and Still Talking Black. Until next time, keep talking

Transcribed by https://otter.ai